The Virtues of the PlayStation Trophy System
Destructoid posted an article that strongly criticized PlayStation Trophies, while at the same time stating that Xbox 360 Achievements are significantly more meaningful and successful. However, Destructoid’s circular logic and repetitive complaints did little to actually explain why it held this to be true. In fact, many of the complaints it made were flat out wrong.
The first complaint that Destructoid makes is pretty bold:
“…unlike MS Achievements, Trophies have so far failed to really add much of anything to [the] gameplay experience.”
I strongly disagree with this. If anything, Trophies have enriched the gaming experiences of PS3 owners by allowing and encouraging us to play through our games more thoroughly and skillfully. It’s one thing to play through Mirror’s Edge the normal way, and another to win the “Test of Faith” Trophy, which requires you to complete the game without shooting a single enemy. Not only does this affect how you approach the levels, it also forces you to master the hand-to-hand combat and acrobatics of Mirror’s Edge.
“The major issue with Trophies, as it stands, is the fact that the PlayStation Network has not succeeded in creating the feeling of a true online identity for its players. The rather alienating XMB and awkwardness of communication makes it far more difficult for gamers to feel connected to their PSN handles than they do their Gamertags.”
The problem with this argument is that players’ online identities have actually become more unique with the recent implementation of Trophies. As with MS Achievements, the Trophies define who you are as a player, highlighting the games that you own and the objectives that you worked hard to achieve. Trophy accomplishments and online identity simply go hand in hand.
Destructoid’s complaints go even further, stating that the PS3’s “sluggish XMB feels archaic and inconvenient to use.” This is completely laughable considering that the XMB is both simple and powerful to use, as noted by IGN. Even during gameplay, the only thing separating you and your trophy list is a single press of the Home button. However, the real problem with Destructoid’s views is apparent with the author’s following statement.
“Nearly all my Trophies so far are Bronze, and I struggle to give a shit about any of them, because we all know that Bronze is for losers. Unlike Achievements, which have an ‘every little helps’ aura about them, the PlayStation Trophies don’t feel like they work towards anything.”
Firstly, the author seems to be upset at the fact that they haven’t been skilled enough to win many of the Silver or Gold medals, and it’s unfortunate that they let this completely blind them from a small, but pivotal fact. It’s true that MS Achievements are all built equally, and are all attainable without the help of other achievements. Some are worth more than others (just like Trophies), but don’t have the arbitrary name associated with them, such as Bronze, Silver, etc.
But what the author doesn’t seem to realize is that trophies have discreet values. In addition to this, Sony implemented Platinum trophies, which can only be unlocked when the player earns every trophy within a game. Though the author states that PS Trophies don’t work towards anything, this definitely isn’t the case.
- Bronzes are worth 15 points.
- Silvers are worth 30 points.
- Golds are worth 90 points.
- Platinums are worth 180 points.
PS Trophies work together, and help unlock an enormous amount of points if a player dedicates enough time to complete every trophy. MS Achievements have absolutely no way of allowing Xbox 360 owners to win an extra 50 or 100 points for earning that final 5 point achievement for a specific game. With the PS3, however, you can unlock a 180 point Platinum Trophy by completing a 15 point Bronze Trophy. This encourages full playthroughs as two pivotal parts of the PS Gamer Card: bragging rights, and leveling up their overall score.
Though Destructoid states that “the PSN experience is always going to feel like a step behind what the Xbox brand currently offers,” it’s hard to deny that Sony has taken the achievement concept to the next level. Rather than trying to get a higher overall number than other players, you can compare individual trophy stats and understand the context of how they earned those trophies. Sure, someone may have a higher Level than you based on their PSN Gamer Card, but if all they earned is Bronze trophies then you can tell that they’re a casual user. Meet someone with an arsenal of Platinum trophies however, and you’ll know you’re face to face with a skilled, hardcore gamer.
Despite these significant differences, Achievements and Trophies are essentially the same and serve identical purposes. In fact, a comparison of multiplatform games shows that the Trophies and Achievements are identical across both the PS3 and 360 SKUs, and similar in point allocations. There’s no reason to bicker over “which one is better”, because Trophies and Achievements are there for bragging rights and a sense of personal achievement. That’s what they were built for, and both have made amazing contributions to not only how videogames are played, but how they are designed.
*Disclaimer: PSLS is not attacking Destructoid, just stating a difference of opinion.
31 Responses to “The Virtues of the PlayStation Trophy System”
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May 18th, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Great article!
I read this article at Destructoid some times ago, and I really wanted to blog about it.
… seems someone took my job.
May 18th, 2009 at 1:57 PM
what a xbox fanboy, man I’d like to meet that guy in real life so I could kick him in the nutz.
May 18th, 2009 at 2:03 PM
Great rebuttal! I’ve had a similar argument with a friend before.
There’s no denying that Sony have done what they’ve done with Trophies because of the success of what Microsoft did with Achievements. But Microsoft were hardly the first to come up with the idea. Arbitrary awards for doing certain things in a game have been around for many many years.
On the PS2 all the Ratchet games had huge lists of random stuff to do that would give you points with which you could unlock extras,and I *know* that other games did before the PS2.
Hopefully Sony will fulfil the rumours that Trophies will be linked to Home content in the future; clothes, items, spaces, mini-games…
May 18th, 2009 at 2:09 PM
I don’t think there is an argument against the trophy system not being sluggish (even when not in comparison to 360)
When you want to view your trophies, it first does a sync which only happens at that moment it seems and not in the background (which seems to happen on the 360). Depending on number of trophies and number of games they came from, the time on this varies. Whenever you want to view friends trophies there is a significant noticeable lag as well (again likely happens in the background on the 360). I have not heard anyone claim otherwise. While the XMB overall is generally snappy and quick to use, the trophy system is not. The system isn’t terrible, but there is a sluggishness that I don’t think can be denied.
Also I credit PS3 for trying to make their own system, but I think they almost made things too specific. I may know a friend of mine is level 6, and I’m level 8, but I have no concept as to what that means aside from 2 levels. When the amount needed to progress from level to level increases, that makes the difference between levels harder to quantify. Two friends being level 1 and 2 are and lot closer together than two friends being 11 and 12. Some of that gets lost by taking an almost RPG approach to leveling. By comparison on 360, points are easy to compare while maintaining scale. Yes, level 11 and level 12 can easily be compared as a level difference of 1, but how much that difference actually is, that is another story.
That being said, I’m at about level 8 or so on PS3, and have about 9000 or so points on 360, so obviously at the end of the day I still like both systems for “achievements”. Just saying try to be willing to admit “weaknesses” of both systems when writing opinion pieces.
May 18th, 2009 at 2:22 PM
@Michaelja
If you downloaded the latest update, 2.76, trophy viewing should be instantaneous. Also, if you want to know the scale used for PS Trophies, this is how it works:
Level 1 – 0 pts
Level 2 – 200 pts
Level 3 – 600 pts
Level 4 – 1200 pts
Level 5 – 2400 pts
Level 6 – 4000 pts
Level 7 – 6000 pts
Level 8 – 8000 pts
Level 9 – 10000 pts
Level 10 – 12000 pts
Level 11 – 14000 pts
Level 12 – 16000 pts
Level 13 – 24000 pts
Level 14 – 32000 pts
As you can see, it’s curved such that leveling up becomes harder and harder. Either way your gamer score is a cumulative number; doesn’t matter if you’re talking about PS3 or 360. It’s the percentage bar on the PSN Gamer Card that stimulates the desire (or sense of hopelessness) to complete your current level.
May 18th, 2009 at 2:38 PM
@ John Draisey
playstation universe also bashed destructoids article 3-4 weeks ago here it is:
http://www.psu.com/Rebuttal–PS3-Trophies-and-how-they-achieve–a007184-p0.php
destructoid even when in detail to say that 360 achievements mean something. when in reality you can get a achievement by something simple as changing your wallpaper or buy your avatar some clothing. to me, its fun unlocking a trophie but its nothing special, same as an achievement. The trophies system seams a little off because platinums are worth more than gold or silver so the difference in a persons level is high with less games. Than a person that gets pure silver and gold.
Its cool you can get free home items but thats still fairly new and not every game supports the “in home free item”. People seam to always complain about the online in the PSN ,since ive had my PS3 i only had 1 issue that it wouldn’t connect in 2 years. Playing online SC4 on a 360 was the same as the PSN laggy but thats because its a fighting game and not a FPS. all these talks of how GREAT xbox live is seams partialy bias. There are times my friends complain about the Xboxlive and issues finding games..so its not perfect.
its funny i was about to email you 4 weeks ago to blog about this exact article but i became busy and it slipped my mind..
05/18/2009 at 2:42 PM
Really?? I probably would’ve gotten this up faster, then. Thanks for the link. I’m glad someone else payed attention to this.
May 18th, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Trophies and achievements are really the exact same thing. The reason why all these people choose to complain about trophies is because achievements were here first, and that is what these people are use to. Trophies come along and they are new and different, but they can’t view them as different and equal, they have to view them as inferior……i don’t know why.
and just on the last gamescoop podcast, i think it was Craig Harris who said that trophys were stupid because the points system behind the trophies were arbitrary and convuluded, and he didn’t know how many points he needed untill he reached the next level. He clearly doens’t understand the trophy system that well, and is basing his opinions on his own ignorance
the only flaw in trophy system, is that you can’t comepare the trophy level of every friend simultaneously, and once they fix that there won’t be any difference in trophies and achievements, but really theyre pretty much the same thing, and they are both awesome. Stop trying to find things to complain about and just go play a game.
May 18th, 2009 at 2:39 PM
destructoids article is full of dog shit, i love psn!!!
May 18th, 2009 at 2:40 PM
Yeah, it’d be great if you could compare 5~10 friends’ trophy pages at once, and even sort them on the fly.
May 18th, 2009 at 2:48 PM
I’m not a trophy whore, and the trophies still add more fun to the games. Destructoid…go kick yourself in the face.
May 18th, 2009 at 2:51 PM
@everyone else ..
if you really like a bloggers article DO RATE IT. You know, those 1-5 stars under the article..
1-Select a star and click the mouse.
give the PSL writers some more motivation than OMG GREAT ARTICLE and vanish…
in case no ones noticed, the amount of articles that have been appearing in this site has increased dramatically, its even surpassed Kotaku who dont even blog about games 40% of the time and has eclipsed Playstation Universe who was my favorite site before PSL.
May 18th, 2009 at 3:01 PM
@ John Draisey
Honestly because of the lag I actually stopped looking. I’ll give it a shot. Thanks for letting me know.
Regarding points though, is this a consensus derived from the work of the community or something Sony themselves posted? Not everyone is going to be “hardcore” enough to do the work into looking towards the community to find a “key” to what their level translates to.
I know it’s curved so it becomes harder, but look at 13 and 14 for a more extreme example.
Online with research you can see this:
Level 13 – 24000 pts
Level 14 – 32000 pts
On PSN I see:
13
14
The percentage bar may be a motivator for an individual player to reach the next level. However my point still stands in that its difficult to determine exactly how much further “ahead” or “better” someone is than you. Information gets abstracted to the point of being lost without going online and looking up a key. If I have to browse a message board to get a reasonable idea of where I stand exactly against someone else, the system needs improvement.
I just have a feeling there is too much going on with the Sony trophy system. Downloadable games don’t have platinums but retail games do. Why can’t downloadable games have some sort of sense of “completion”. The idea of a bonus (platinum) for completing games isnt a bad idea. The idea of bronze, silver, gold, and platinum trophies isn’t bad either. The idea of an RPG like system for players is nice too. However adding them all together in one system makes me care about them all less. I don’t care how many of each kind I can get. If I’m going for platinums, at the end of the day I’m going to have a ton of all 3, especially bronze. I think I would like the system better if it was just simplified to a level (with points to next level in the progress bar) and a bonus allotment of points if you completed a game.
May 18th, 2009 at 3:05 PM
Great article! You are totally right, trophies are completely original and awesome!
May 18th, 2009 at 3:11 PM
@ michaelja
the only down loadable title that had platinum was warhawk.. why the rest don’t ? no clue.. i do see your point of view.
May 18th, 2009 at 3:30 PM
oh and I mean smaller downloadable games above, not Burnout, Wipeout, or Warhawk.
May 18th, 2009 at 3:36 PM
also SOCOM: Confrontation
May 18th, 2009 at 3:40 PM
…can I safely say $10-15 games then?
May 18th, 2009 at 3:52 PM
@Michaelja,
Actually, yes you can. =]
May 18th, 2009 at 4:03 PM
i just past the level 11 mark. My only gripe is that i have 32 games with trophies and i takes a few minutes to sync or compare.
05/18/2009 at 4:26 PM
Yeah, even though the Trophy system is a lot faster now with Firmware 2.76, hopefully do what they did with Downloading and just have Trophies sync in the background.
May 18th, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Destructoid is just wrong. I’m not going to waste my time prove it (I don’t have to), he’s just entirely biased and ignorant. Destructoid is a D-bag
May 18th, 2009 at 4:32 PM
Awesome article, I’ll say it.
Take that Destructoid LOL/ j/k
Everyone has their opinion as to which they prefer, but in thte end it is all abouit bragging rights.
May 18th, 2009 at 4:57 PM
@ StalkingSilence
look who came around?
May 18th, 2009 at 5:27 PM
You just pwned him.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:09 PM
Ugh that Destructoid writer has his head so far up his own ass that I don’t think it’s even worth pointing out everything wrong with what he wrote. I’ll just say as someone who has spent a lot of time working on Achievements (and now Trophies), that I honestly prefer trophies. I LIKE the bronze/silver/gold/platinum system because regardless of level, I can glance at someone’s trophy card and see how they got their points. Some people get fairly high in level without ever getting a platinum, and some people are actually lower in level but have COMPLETED the games they choose to play. Sure, I wish trophies loaded faster and you could view everyone’s progress at once, but for a system that wasn’t built into the initial OS / firmware / whatever, it does a good job. And I like the fact that the leveling system scales, because otherwise the biggest trophy whores would be about 50+ levels higher than me instead of only 3 or 4.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:16 PM
Great article completely agree
May 18th, 2009 at 8:55 PM
Great article bud. There really is no difference. Yes looking at a big number may be easier, but who really cares. It all does the same thing in the end.
May 19th, 2009 at 5:41 AM
I don’t know much about achievements. Do you get a bonus for fully completing a game?
Even though I don’t have any platinums yet, I really like the fact that by fully completing a game you get that bonus, points and trophy. It helps those people dedicated enough to a game, stand out. More than just a points score alone.
I do wish that Sony would disambiguate the system a little. Are those points scores for each trophy from Sony themselves? As I remember when they first came out, there was an article that stated the actual distribution of points were up to the developer. My understanding was that each game type (disc or PSN) had a total points value, and the developers split this up however they wanted.
Viewing several friends trophies at once would be nice though.
Alex
May 20th, 2009 at 6:57 AM
i dont think sony needs to have something on the screen that says how much till the next level but atleast have something official posted on their website confirming the level amounts…i do agree…
May 20th, 2009 at 6:59 AM
something should and easily could be posted showing your “gamerpoints” total and call it trophypoints…that’ll keep ‘em talkin’
May 20th, 2009 at 2:29 PM
Does it matter how they are viewed. If the game is for 360 or PS3 you have to do the same thing. I have a 27,000 pt gamerscore on 360. Trophies on the PS3 just show your point value differently. Oh darn. Glad Sony put the trophie system in place. Now I just need to start leveling up …. LOL!
August 11th, 2009 at 6:09 AM
I really don’t see a problem with the levels. People really want an “experience points” system shown? Well, I guess it wouldn’t hurt it. But in my opinion if you simply understand the concept that as you level up, leveling up is harder, then you should be able to know how far ahead/behind you are of somebody. Maybe not EXACTLY, but you have a pretty good clue. If you really need an exact point value of how far you are behind them, then you need to get a life.
Also, trophies are awesome. I’m sorry, but I’ve never cared for “points” in ANY games. No matter how many points I have, 100 or 1 million, it really doesn’t make a difference to me. Points just don’t make me excited in the least bit. I think the idea of gamerscore is pretty lame. Do people really brag to each other on xbox live saying, “i have ‘this many’ points!”?