Sony Passed on Natal Tech, Explains Why
It’s a little known fact that during the early days of the PlayStation Move, Sony had the opportunity to work with 3DV Systems, the Israeli based company now owned by Microsoft that specializes in digital imaging technology and the masterminds behind Natal. Ultimately, Sony chose to utilize a combination of light, a camera, and instruments used to measure the action of acceleration and magnetic fields instead of implementing the many patents undoubtedly held by 3DV. Recently, Dr. Richard Marks explained why.
During the recent Engadget Show, Dr. Marks treated viewers with a stunning display of the Move’s potential and the type of impact it can have on the future of gaming. He also revealed the reasoning behind Sony’s design decisions and the downsides of 3D cameras. When asked about investing research into 3D cameras like Natal’s, Marks explained:
We tried a lot of different 3D cameras. I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked closely with our game teams at what it would enable, and it enabled making the things we already did with EyeToy more robust, but it didn’t really enable as many new experiences as what we were hoping it would enable, so it made the things we were already able to do a little bit more robust — which is good — but it adds a lot of cost and it didn’t enable some of the other experiences we wanted to achieve.
In addition, Dr. Marks explains the purpose of having the Move employ glowing spheres.
Sometimes a tech demo doesn’t translate into a product very well, for example, [in the tech demo] we were tracking those colored balls, but since there’s no light in the ball or anything like that, the lighting in the room has to be good enough for the camera to see the color reliably and that makes for a difficult product when you don’t have a control over those variables. And with the 3D camera it’s a little bit similar that we found that there were some things we wanted to be able to do and sometimes it wouldn’t work reliably for what we wanted to do.
Since there is no control over light conditions, Microsoft may have to include those red jumpsuits after all. Joking aside, it’s worth noting that prior to being purchased by Microsoft, 3DV also reportedly approached Nintendo, hoping to be adopted into their family. In the end, concerns about latency and the costs involved lead to 3DV being dismissed as a solution.
Microsoft claims to have addressed some issues by improving the software of Natal. In addition, the original co-processor that was supposed to be integrated into Natal has been eliminated due to costs. Doing so not only effectively assigns all processing duties to the Xbox 360, but also taxes the system up to 15%, leaving less computing power for developers to utilize. This amount of headroom required will make it problematic to support software that was released prior to Natal.
It’s interesting to get a sense of the amount of thought that went into engineering the Move. Given Dr. Marks’ responses, Natal could very well be destined to be a glorified EyeToy. Not to downplay the abilities of Natal, but PlayStation Move already seems to be delivering much of its promise. Of course only time will tell which technology is best suited to usher in the next evolution in gaming. Until then, be sure to check out our impressions of PlayStation Move.
42 Responses to “Sony Passed on Natal Tech, Explains Why”
Well, the PS Eye from PS2 essentially did the same thing but at a smaller scale. Some loved it, but it wasn’t particularly successful. What seems to work is adding something that actually “makes sense” with already existing software. Natal will NOT make sense with games such as Alan Wake or Halo, but PS Move makes sense with games such as SOCOM and Heavy Rain.
in other words, Microsoft got stuck with tech that everyone else passed on because they aren’t capable enough in house to come up with anything better…sometimes those things turn out great, like NFL Draft picks, sometimes they turn out to be shit like the companies who passed on it expected.
To be real, as far as I’m concerned, the jury is still very much undecided on the whole motion gaming thing. People keep talking about it’s the future and it’s this or that, blah blah, I don’t accept that, especially not yet. Fact is, there is a majority of existing games that just don’t translate or communicate with motion controllers. The reason the Wii works is because every single piece of software is made from the ground up with the controller in mind. That’s also partly the reason why there is so much shovelware on the console. Certain games and genres from the PS3/360 will work, but as I said, many other games and genres would have to be wildly “adapted,” and it is my opinion that they would suffer. There is a reason why we have controllers with buttons, and as a long time gamer, I don’t want to see that go.
But in regards to the article specifically, Sony already used an older version of the same tech last generation, so yea.
I’ve got a feeling that Natal will sell very well (at first at least), because most people will think it’s something new and amazing. I never believed that thing was going to work as promised though, and things just keep looking worse for it.
The Move, on the other hand, will probably work mostly as promised, but it will be a hard sell. Most people are going to think it’s exactly like the Wii.
Moral of the story… I think they’ll both fail in their own way.
I haven’t read any other points from comments but i’m putting my 2 cents in on this one.
There are a few things that factor in on the success of either Move or Natal.
Marketing – If it’s not marketed well no one will know about the product, or else not be interested.
Price – You can have an amazing product but in the end consumers want the best bang for the buck, just because something is better does not mean it will sell well, this falls back to marketing. Just look at the Xbox360 in the end consumers pay much more to get started playing games online, yet it has sold so much better than the PS3 till recently.
Software – This falls partly into marketing, you have to show off an array of titles, Hardcore & Casual. Whatever you market with software wise had better be stunning, you have you make that splash that makes people say ” wow “, ” amazing “.
—-
My take of the sales side, I think Natal will sell much more than Move, the sole reason. Marketing. This has been one of Sony’s weakest points till recently with the Kevin Butler videos, but even then we need to see at least 3 Move videos on multiple channels displaying hardcore and family. games.
actually the sole reason Natal will sell more than Move is because of the user base the 360 has compared to the PS3. The only thing the PS3 has going for it’s base versus the 360 is that it has a much higher portion willing to play something other than COD or Halo. I don’t think Sony is that far behind Microsoft when it comes to marketing. The only thing Microsoft does more than Sony is trying to steal every multi-platform game by stamping the 360 logo after every game trailer (That really bothers me by the way). It comes down to the fact that if the PS3 was the most popular console this generation like the PS2 was last generation, we wouldn’t be having any conversations about Natal possibly outselling Move.
KwietStorm – I would say motion is definitely the future of gaming, as it grows I think we will see most games built to give the option to use either motion or standard controls. Whether the future is now is what is still under question. Will motion be fully realized with the Move or will it be with something else farther down the line?
[...] PlayStation LifeStyle » Sony Passed on Natal Tech, Explains Why [...]
I find it funny that Microsoft is using something the other two main games companies passed on. It’s extremely ironic.
Quick question…
what’s the difference between “Move” and “Natal”
Can anyone give me a no fluff explanation?
Is that a RRoD in that picture up there?
What I understand then Natal will only use a camera. It’s probably motion and heat sensing though. But it wont be able to “understand” the distance to the player.
Move uses a camera for tracking the glowing orbs on the move controllers and enables the ps3 to “understand” the distance to the players. The move controllers itself has six axis motion sensors built-in or something like that, for knowing how the controller is held in 3D.
[...] Sony Passed on Natal Tech, Explains Why [...]
@ Wecki09 Thank you for that explanation. Clears things up a bit for me.
@ Mcx…lol I do believe it is. Though I could be wrong
[...] PlayStation LifeStyle Sony Passed on Natal Tech, Explains Why __________________ Mischief.tv ps3digest.com [...]
I’ve always been very skeptical about the claims being made concerning Natal. In the movie making industry, doing accurate motion capture requires the actor to wear a special suit equipped with numerous sensors, as well as some pretty impressive computing power. I just don’t see Natal being able to do much, with the user wearing normal clothes and with only 15% of the Xbox’s power available for it. And the co-processor was eliminated due to cost…uh-huh.
And I just don’t have much interest in pointing my finger at something and going “pew pew”. I’d at least like to have a trigger to pull.
I don’t think motion sensing is “the future” at all. We’ve had the Wii for quite some time now. It has its market, but that’s about it. There are a huge number of people who don’t want to stand in front of their TV’s for hours at a time each evening. And personally, as a major fan of racing games, I think I’ll stick with my steering wheel and accelerator / brake pedal peripherals.
i get too high to move round
What Microsoft is doing is reducing cost by virtualizing that feature through software in the OS. They did this with Windows and now that they have purchased the company that pitched it to Sony and Nintendo. They believe that they can do it better but it will take time to get it close to its original claims.
But Sony already did this back in 2004/5 with the EyeToy of which I recently purchased two from GameStop for $9.99 with software. The included software was similar to Wii fit and sports, the other was a hover board game called Anti-Grav. But it did not sell well since there was no real interest by the casual gamer to purchase the products since they were most likely seen by NA users as silly.
Even the PS3 Eye has motion software available in the PSN Store for using the camera to create colors on the screen or feed and interact with an aquarium of fish.
[...] PlayStation LifeStyle » Sony Passed on Natal Tech, Explains Why [...]
Another bit from the Engadget show interview was that for EyeToy to be included into a game meant sacrificing 25% of the PS2′s CPU, which was a lot to stomach and kept it a pretty niche peripheral.
This may come back to bite Microsoft. While removing the dedicated processor from the Natal camera will lower its cost and spur adoption, it is going to limit what games that support Natal can do. Patching existing titles to use Natal is going to be tricky and require quite a bit of time (and money) to do, and I don’t see many third party devs going to the trouble when there will be little reward (sales) for doing so. Without a large first party system like Sony has that will take the hit to bring support to big titles, I don’t think that Microsoft will deliver on the promise for Natal support for existing games. Contrast that with games like LittleBigPlanet, which is already over a year old, getting patched to support Move, Heavy Rain, Pain, etc.
And beyond sales, once people have it in their house, they’re not going to be able to get the same experiences that they got without Natal as far as graphics, etc. because of Natal’s resource drain. It will really be as “Kevin Butler” predicts — a novel way of catching big red balls, and shooting guns with your fingers.
What I foresee happening with Natal is sort of the same thing that happened with the Wii. Microsoft will fuel the hype, and people will buy it, but then after the novelty wears off it’s just one more thing cluttering up your entertainment center. Whereas PS Move will get off to a more conservative start as people try to figure out just what it brings to the system, but it will catch steam and grow because it is exactly what the Wii promised but was never quite able to deliver, even with MotionPlus.
[...] Nota original. [...]
[...] PlayStation LifeStyle » Sony Passed on Natal Tech, Explains Why [...]
[...] on The Engadget Show from a couple of weekends ago (via PlayStation Lifestyle), he said it would have made the firm’s existing tech “a little more robust,” but [...]
[...] “We tried a lot of different 3D cameras. I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it,” Marks told Engadget (via PSLS). [...]
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[...] Move could be. “We tried a lot of different 3D cameras,” Marks said on the show (via PlayStation LifeStyle). “I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked [...]
[...] Move could be. “We tried a lot of different 3D cameras,” Marks said on the show (via PlayStation LifeStyle). “I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked [...]
[...] Move could be. “We tried a lot of different 3D cameras,” Marks said on the show (via PlayStation LifeStyle). “I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked [...]
[...] Source: PlayStation Lifestyle [...]
[...] Move could be. “We tried a lot of different 3D cameras,” Marks said on the show (via PlayStation LifeStyle). “I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked [...]
[...] Move could be. “We tried a lot of different 3D cameras,” Marks said on the show (via PlayStation LifeStyle). “I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked [...]
[...] Move could be. “We tried a lot of different 3D cameras,” Marks said on the show (via PlayStation LifeStyle). “I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked [...]
I agree with most of the comments here. Without a doubt Natal will sell like hotcakes upon release. But it won’t take long, I say 2-3 months tops, that people will catch wind that it’s really a piece of shit and will stop buying it.
Problem is though, that once everyone realizes just how limited Natal is, they will think the same about PSMove, the average consumer doesn’t do do research and will just implement one product’s fault into the next product. So Natal’s failure could inhibit the Move somewhat.
Just like the other posters mentioned. The PSMove will come out on top overall. With the release of GT5 and 3D, along with the PSMove, that will put the nail on the 360′s coffin, expect to hear about Microsoft’s next system by the end of this year
[...] Move could be. “We tried a lot of different 3D cameras,” Marks said on the show (via PlayStation LifeStyle). “I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked [...]
[...] Move could be. “We tried a lot of different 3D cameras,” Marks said on the show (via PlayStation LifeStyle). “I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked [...]
[...] PlayStation LifeStyle » Sony Passed on Natal Tech, Explains Why [...]
[...] Source: PlayStation Lifestyle [...]
[...] Move could be. “We tried a lot of different 3D cameras,” Marks said on the show (via PlayStation LifeStyle). “I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked [...]
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[...] Move could be. “We tried a lot of different 3D cameras,” Marks said on the show (via PlayStation LifeStyle). “I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked [...]
I’m hoping move works like a 3d mouse. I don’t like the frag f/x mouse and there aren’t any others. if it works then I can ditch this tiny dualshock wing thing.
[...] Move could be. “We tried a lot of different 3D cameras,” Marks said on the show (via PlayStation LifeStyle). “I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked [...]
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