The Worst Is Yet to Come: Anonymous Talks To PlayStation LifeStyle
After extensively covering Anonymous’ attack on Sony, PlayStation LifeStyle’s news was heavily referenced across the internet by other gaming sites, but they weren’t the only ones to take interest in our articles. Anonymous had noticed, and they wanted to talk.
After waking this morning, I checked Anonymous’ IRC, a secure chat system used by the group to co-ordinate their attacks, after scrolling down a few pages I noticed something – Anonymous were looking for me. User Takai stated on SonyRecon’s IRC “Find me Sebastian Moss… Wanna talk to him”. Subsequently, other members replied “There’s his twitter dude, I can get his email if you want… Moss is a member of GamesPress.com – his details will be easy enough to find.” Anonymous were closing in: “okay Mr Moss lives in central london” continuing “hey sebastain if your here wanna just go ahead and give us your phone number?… cause we’re going to find it”.
Dubbed by some as “giant killers”, its generally not seen as a good idea to incur the wrath of Anonymous, who were able to not only bring Sony down, but governments, Mastercard and US security firm HB Gary. However, while Anonymous has few rules, they do have a very strict one against attacking the press – as supporters of free speech, they must allow journalists to write what they want, even if they don’t like what is written. Takai told the members of the chat ” He is NOT a target”, repeating that I should not be intimidated or threatened.
Checking my Twitter, I had received a message: “Join our IRC #SonyRecon under the username BoltMoss72. Anon has a statement to make”. Anonymous has no formal leader, and instead any member can contribute to the group and suggest actions or make statements, but the SonyRecon IRC was almost unanimous – they had something to say to me.
I joined the chat soon after, still slightly nervous, updating my anti-virus software in a futile attempt to feel more secure. Takai immediately replied to my message, setting up a private chat room to talk. After looking at the IRC chat logs it was clear that Takai, while not a leader, did have a disproportionately high input in the chat, and the group’s actions. I asked Takai if he (gender assumed) would classify himself as “a current driving force behind SonyRecon” and he agreed, but later was careful to clarify that he had “not actually admitted to what [his] particular role in the operation is”, and light-heartedly that “perhaps [he is] merely a cheer leader”.
Takai believed that the FBI, along with Sony and Prolexic were watching the main group’s chat (but not our private conversation), so he chose his words carefully, ensuring he never technically admitted to any wrong doing. However, he said that he did not fear Sony coming after him, and that “they have bigger things to worry about than I”. He also joked that about the FBI watching them: “They’re names in a list. If they want to hang out and chat, by all means. Maybe they can help ddos!.. I hear the government has a fast connection or two 
”
Hired by Sony, Prolexic are a company that specialises in defeating DDoS attacks – the kind currently used by Anonymous to bring down Sony. A powerful opponent, Prolexic have mostly managed to keep Anonymous at bay. Takai, however, seemed relaxed about the company’s defenses – “It was expected. We knew sooner or later Sony would enlist outside help”. Pressed on whether Anonymous would take out Prolexic, Takai showed confidence in the ‘hacktavist’s’ upcoming retaliation, stating “well, if I had to put money on it … I’d say, Prolexic is going down like a two dollar wh*** in a Nevada chicken ranch ”. He did admit that the company “is quite formidable” and congratulated “them for doing so well”, but again he warned “We do however have ways for dealing with the ‘Prolexic’ factor”. Hoping to not ruin the “big surprises” planned for Sony, he would not go into detail on what these ways were, refusing to comment on whether the site would be defaced – something that was considered in the main IRC.
It was clear that Anonymous have only just begun their assault on Sony, with Takai saying about the new defenses: “the last thing we want, is Sony thinking we were in any way discouraged”. He announced “[today] however is an important day for Sony”, threatening that far more was to come:
So far, all Sony has seen from us is poking and prodding. A simple salute to let them know, we’re coming. Make no mistake, what you saw today and thought to be frustration is merely preparation for what’s to come.
We said, expect us. Counting us out, would be a mistake.
Later:
For the sake of not shooting ourselves in the foot, I won’t comment on specific operational tactics we may or may not employ here. I will however say, that if Sony thinks LOIC is the only trick in our hat … they’re in for a hell of a wake up call. We’re really going all out for this one.
There are many different faces to the operation. Something we encourage is creative thinking.
He also confirmed that this belief was shared by many others: “My belief and that of all those you see here and many many more is that Anonymous is not done with Sony”. And it’s true, the IRC is filled with anonymous Anons planning a big attack, but due to my presence, the discussions on actual plans are kept off the main lines. Takai also stated that the fight could last for a long time: “We’ve known all along this war would not be won in a day. We’re here for the long haul though.” Continue reading…
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254 Responses to “The Worst Is Yet to Come: Anonymous Talks To PlayStation LifeStyle”
I get what they are upset about, but what they’re apparently overlooking is that what they’re doing is completely illegal. Hacking and attacking like this is illegal, you can’t just do what you want, there is a limit. Attacking a site and trying to bring down everyone helping is flat out hacking, among other things. I hope they realize that when they’re tracked down they’ll be sorry, and they WILL get tracked down. I don’t know what they hope to accomplish, but they’re fucking stupid.
This whole thing is stupid. You signed an agreement, and have gone back on that agreement, therefore you are actually at fault. When you signed up for your PSN account, you agreed to Sony’s terms, and are backing out on that, therefore essentially breaking a contract. Geohot broke Sony’s terms, and he’s paying for it. Anonymous will pay too. Honestly, give up. You’re upset that Sony is trying to protect their hardware. If you don’t like it so much, make your own god damn system, and we’ll hack it to shit and make you lose money. You won’t like it.
It hasn’t been proven that geohot agreed to the PS3s TOS.
Well, that is because the trial has yet to go forward… From what I read, he at one point did so on an older console that they found.
From what I read, they traced a PSN account on a PS3 he purchased to his IP Address. You CAN’T create a PSN account with agreeing to the terms. You can’t update the PS3 without agreeing to the terms.
@Azaria
Doesnt matter if it was traced to his IP address or home. He could’ve had a friend over. Maybe that friend made the account. Anyone couldve made that account. Theres no proof Geohot did it.
I just don’t get it…why is this happening? why is there so much hate for sony? if you don’t like them then don’t use their products. Why can’t it be that simple..
Didn’t all this start because they remove linux or some feature? so what? most gamers use the ps3 to play games. If you want so many features for the ps3 then y don’t use a computer? cant u jailbreak that?
I understand about ownership of a product..that you have the right to use that product however u want and all that because u bought it…but what geohot did was wrong..he posted the code online so that everyone can jailbreak..had he not done that sony wouldn’t have been all up on him and none of this would of happen. Couldn’t he just admit he was wrong and serve his time. why does he has to announce everytime he jailbreaks something.
Now this is happening..you guys(anon.) act like sony has killed some important person in your life and now are seeking revenge. You guys have the same mentality as Gabriel from the movie swordfish on terrorism..”: Anyone who impinges on America’s freedom. Terrorist states, Stanley. Someone must bring their war to them. They bomb a church, we bomb ten. They hijack a plane, we take out an airport. They execute American tourists, we tactically nuke an entire city. Our job is to make terrorism so horrific that it becomes unthinkable to attack Americans.” is it not the same? sony takes down a couple of hackers so you guys are take down a corporation.
why waste all this time fighting a company when u can do something more productive…if you guys are standing up for those sony “mistreated” well most of us weren’t one of them…and we dont want ur “help”. so please cant u guys and sony just talk it out..some good old diplomacy instead of this..? i don’t understand why u care so much about this. do u guys know that u r acting like criminals? how many years have you guys wasted doing this sort of thing..what have you accomplish..why cant u be like most of us and try to get a good job, start a family, and live life…
What you don’t understand is that it is wrong for any business to sell a product with a particular feature, and then remove that feature without compensating them. It doesn’t matter if it was only one person in the world who wanted the feature. That person has the right to get everything they were offered. False advertising is serious business. Don’t give me that patch crap about how you have to choose between otherOS and PSN because both were advertised as included with the system. It says so right on the box I bought mine in.
How could sony catch them if Mastercard couldn’t?
I want you guys to read this. They explain the court documents really well.
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110402000830503
They have alot more. You kinda have to dig if you are interested. I’m pretty sure you might be Sebastian.
What exactly is their goal? What will make them stop? What would determine them to “win”? Do they think Sony is just going to drop all the charges because you take down a website?
“What will make them stop? ”
A prison cell.
A prison cell is not going to stop hackers, Jawknee. Dont be stupid.
When push comes to shove why not? Throw’em in jail.
Sony will fix this
Yeah….like thats been working SO WELL, so far. Idiots. -_-
the sheer amount of anger and hatred in these comments is enough to say.. they have successfully trolled you guys to the cliff’s edge.
kudos anon
All I want to do is game in peace… I believe in being open minded about everything in life. I don’t impose my opinion on other and don’t want the opinions of others impeding my seriously limited gaming time. I don’t talk trash. I don’t gloat.. I game.
..Gamers lose out the most, imo. Feel free to disagree..
F*ck this F*ckimg prick. YOU F*ing D*ck!!! Do you know that I have thousands invested into having a perfect gaming experience on my PS3?? Nobody thinks your cool, you sick and are an asshole. You know what? If you really wwanted to do something for the f*cking consumer and peoples rights, release your own F*cking console. Why do the smartest people have to be so F*ing stupid?
You are trying to make my Ps3 a useless piece of sh*t? Thats what’s up? I WILL F*CK YOU UP! Yea, F*Ck u, send me a virus, I will F*cking KILL YOU!!! I will do it by, F*ing u n ur Fing azz, chop u up, cook and eat the pieces, sh*t you out, light you on fire and throw you in F*ing Atlantic!!!!!
bE A NORMAL PERSON AND USE YOUR DAMN COMPUTER FOR GOOD……like free porn.
I really hope you are not an example of a “normal” person.
Screw you too, i am protecting my investment. Cowards hide behind there mask and ip addresses and act like they are doing me a favor? They can suck my fat slong. These guys are douchbags and are no better than an afghan suicide bomber. They made it very clear that consumers are “collateral damage”.
Geohot is a queer too and I hope Sony beats his ass in court. In fact, all you hackers who deliberately interfere with my gaming can go F yourselves. puzzy’s, cowards, cheaters, douchbags, losers – maybe you werent so F gay and determined to make people hate you, you might actualy get laid some day. but No, that not what you want to do, you Aholes want to waste your time Fing with Sony.
Oh and Shadow Runner – Go F your sister, When your done with that, go jump off a f*ong bridge cuz no one likes you and the only person that will miss you is your half-retarded sister that you have been Fing. You should just kill yourself, it must be hard having to come to the internet to comment because no ONE else cares about anything you have to say. Lets be real, that’s the reason you troll around, right? You can borrow one of my guns if you want, i have plenty. Do use all a civil service here. Eventually, even your retarded sister will realize that a 3inch penis just doesnt cut it, then what will you have? Nothing, nothing at all. let me know if your interested in borrowing the gun…
Linux or whatever be damned. I got my PS3 to play games only. Anonymous should leave innocent gamers out of this and LEAVE OUR PSN ALONE!
I think they stopped attacking PSN.
http://www.ps3-hacks.com/2011/04/06/psn-error-80710d36/
WTF. Why was my comment thumbed down…?
Yes, they stopped attacking PSN…for now.
“Anonymous is not attacking the PSN at this time. Sony’s official position is that the PSN is undergoing maintenance. We realize that targeting the PSN is not a good idea. We have therefore temporarily suspended our action, until a method is found that will not severely impact Sony customers.”
Now quit your whining.
Ha!
Mr cut & Paste!?! YAWWWWWNNNNN… Iv seen no effects? lolol
SAD
I do not post here, for your own personal amusement, Lemmy. The effects we have wrought are being seen by Geohot and Anon.
HA!!1
idiot.
Well I was quite surprised to see that Anon’s “statements” were less of a madman on a soapbox and more a calm calculated plan of action.
Whilst I don’t condone illegal actions, hacking etc is something that is made illegal by Governments yet these same governments hacks sites to bring them down and retrieve sensitive data all the time.
In fact the likes of AIG pre-bailout were essentially running a large boiler room scam under the protection of several quasi-governmental entities.
Anon aren’t blessed by the government which is really the only difference between what they are doing and what FBI etc would do.
Glad to see that they are not going to resort to extreme measures like bomb threats or personal threats and will try not to impede the consumer experience. All this shows a well thought out plan.
Again I’m not condoning any of this but we could all be witnessing a David and Goliath of the digital age.
Exactly. Thats another good point, I had’nt considered. I suppose it’s ok for the FBI and CIA to hack into any computer they want, right? But when we do it….it’s a crime. This is the same hypocritical bullshit I am trying to expose.
Our laws were designed to oppress the people of this country, so that “our masters” can have an easier time managing us. Were given our constitutional rights by our forefathers, only to see them slowly being stripped away, nearly 200 years later. Our government, presidents, politicians and religious frauds would have us willingly trade our rights for “extra security” so that we may be provided with the ILLUSION of safety, in this country.
The reason why we have laws restricting the modification and circumvention of a product you pay for, is because the ignorant people of this country let them. Noone has the desire and motivation to vote these laws down. Mainly because noone cares. Senate wants to pass another bill…ok, whatever. <—- Thats the mindset in this country, and it's why we have the stupid laws we have today. Apparently, somewhere between 1775 and 2011…the American people have forgotten WHO is supposed to have the power in this country. Governments should be afraid of they're people, not the people afraid of their governments. Our government was established FOR the people, BY the people of a FREE republic. The 200 year difference, is that noone cares anymore.
Well, SOME of us still do. I refuse to be a part of YOUR system! I refuse to conform to your orwellian matrix of lies and deception! We make use of a service already existing without paying for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and you call us criminals. We explore… and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge… and you call us criminals. We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias… and you call us criminals. You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals.
History has shown your government and it's leaders commit some of the world's worst crimes. They condem theft, yet steal the oil from countries we have no business being in. They condem murder, yet the bloodiest hands in history have been theyre own. They condem terrorism with one hand, and sell them firearms with the other. You preach so highly about justice….yet you are ignorant of the word.
If you think standing up for your constitutional rights and consumer rights to the merchandise you pay for, is petty and insignificant…then your playing for the wrong team, and I pitty you. There is no other cause worth fighting for, than for the very rights we were given by our forefathers. Without these rights, we are no more than slaves and servants to our government. How dare you laugh off our consumer rights as a joke! We are philanthropists, fighting for YOUR rights. Not your military. Your military serves the purposes of your orwellian government, assimilating every country they invade as if they were the borg. We rally, protest, riot and fight to protect your rights. If it werent for us, the philanthropists in this country, you wouldnt have half the rights you have today, you ungrateful bastards!
The US federal goverment will fall soon. Martial law will be declared, shortly afterwards. Were taking our country BACK! Choose wisely who's side youre on. We do not forget. We do not forgive.
We are Anon. Expect us.
Shadow Runner, I appreciate that you’re trying to do the right thing here, but your understanding of humanity and society is flawed. The fundamental flaw is based around:
“The reason why we have laws restricting the modification and circumvention of a product you pay for, is because the ignorant people of this country let them. Noone has the desire and motivation to vote these laws down. Mainly because noone cares. Senate wants to pass another bill…ok, whatever.”
Combined with the impact of the product in question being a content delivery platform. Noting that the biggest challenge human commerce has been faced with, ever, is dealing with compensating people for creating IP with a zero marginal cost of reproduction (music, movies, TV, games, and books available on the internet).
It is unequivocally clear (ie, beyond the proportion of humanity who’ll put their head in the sand and refuse it whatever the evidence – the people who were calling the world flat well into the 18th century, for example) that piracy of these products has cost jobs in all of the industries in question, as well as significantly limited production of new goods in these fields. Ie, information piracy is holding back development of music, movies and games, and means that games cost more and developers get paid less (ie, it hurts gamers, devs and publishers).
Now, what Geohot did was crack the PS3, and then publish something that enabled piracy (yes, Geohot says that he put in anti-piracy protection, but it was cracked in one day – if Geohot’s half as good as he says he is, then that anti-piracy protection was a straw man, and Geohot would have known exactly why his actions would have meant for piracy. Ie, Geohot attacked Playstation gamers, developers and publishers, and he knew it. He may not have understood the poor ethical grounds he was standing on, but by laying the foundation for easy piracy, he was attacking consumers.
Think about this for a moment – Sony have known for years that people have been working on cracking the PS3, and the jailbreak USB keys even succeeded, but beyond getting jailbreak disallowed at retail, there was none of the drama as there was with Geohot. If Geohot was cracking the PS3 for his own personal use, none of this would have come down on him. It was when he attacked what is effectively the last line of defence against piracy, cracked it, and made it available free on the web, that Sony came down on him.
If there was no such thing as game, movie or music piracy, then Anonymous _may_ have some moral justification for their actions, but as it stands, by supporting Geohot, you are backing his attack on gamers and developers. Geohot wasn’t some fighter for freedom of speech, he was (and is) a silly kid looking for attention, and bit off more than he could chew. He’s intellectually bright enough to know better, but lacked the emotional intelligence to know where he’d overstepped the line.
It’s a shame that Anonymous seems to be exhibiting the same lack of intellectual/emotional intelligence. At the moment, Anonymous’ actions seem like those of internet terrorists, not those of people fighting for a better society. Maybe if Anonymous assisted in helping people that make goods with zero marginal cost of production to protect the fruits of their labour, then I’d have some sympathy for you, but at the moment you seem like a bunch of people that have spent too long in basements watching the X-Files looking for people to attack to live out your persecution complexes. Most people are slaves to their own emotions before they are slaves to any of the things you claim to be fighting – free yourselves, and you’ll do a far better job of working out when something’s oppressed and when it isn’t
.
Actually, my depiction of human nature and society is spot on. Sorry if you disagree, but it is what it is.
I’d be very interested in discussing that with you Shadow Runner – while you’ve made a lot of assertions, none of them have been supported with convincing evidence. Like the best of conspiracy theorists, you’ve thrown around a lot of half-truths (and may well even believe them), but the model of the world you put forward doesn’t hold together when you examine it as closely as you examine what you think is a world of ‘the man’ keeping humanity down. If you want to try and convince me (at the risk of me trying to convince you), you can find me at http://www.sptroopers.com (a PS3 gaming clan – my username there is Axe99). But at the moment, it sounds like the biggest thing oppressing you are your ideas.
All i can say is i hope yr being paid well for all this time your wasting following a BS cause, in the end it’ll fade away like all BS causes do!! All i read is BLAH BLAH BLAH BS BLAH…
I do not recieve any kind of monetary support from anyone I may reach. Information is knowledge. knowledge is power…and it is THAT power that those of us willing to fight, will use. We do not seek money for information that should be freely available to the public. We have no use for your monetary system, and your devalued US dollar.
All you read is BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BS BLAH….because you are closed minded and conditioned to believe WE are the bad guys. I feel sorry for you. Have you decided on your new “slave name” for when the gov makes you theyre lap dog? Have fun with that. ^_^
I’m beginning to see a recurring statement that bothers me a lot. You seem to be under the impression that everyone that doesn’t have an issue with Sony’s actions is a lap dog, sheep or something else along those lines! The assumption that the only reason someone would not agree with your cause is their being uninformed is simply not true.
As an example, I had a hacked PSP for a while but decided to revert to OFW as an educated decision I made for myself. I hacked it to run pirated games and had limited interest in any homebrew outside of iso loaders. I decided to return to OFW as I was concerrned that, even if it wasn’t the sole cause, piracy did contribute to the lack of interest in the PSP among developers.
Whether I was a typical CFW user or not is not the issue, but as it is the only way to run pirated games I can be 100% certain that everone playing pirated games is a CFW user. As such, to protect the interests of those people whose living is made from producing games and who invest heavily in order to be able to create them, FW has to be regulated heavily so they can be assured of due payment for their games. As control of CFW is beyond Sony, the only way they can protect their developers is to outright ban CFW.
The ironic thing is that Sony is the only current console manufacturer that made an effort to provide a limited means to create homebrew (Via Linux) but when efforts were made to circumvent the security protecting against piracy they had to remove the abilty from new PS3s. The option was available to PS3 owners at the time to not update their systems if they would prefer to keep Linux, at the cost of being able to play new games or connect to the PSN. That condition was neccessary to protect against the possibiltiy that a hacked PS3 could be used to wreck the experience of online multiplayer (Like as seen recently with COD), and to ensure that new games were able to use any new system files added after the update.
I am unsure of what you hope to gain from attacking Sony and its servers. The way I see it, Linux on PS3 came and went and is not worth the battle. CFW on PS3 is still possible if you only intend to play offline and without access to new games (Which, for the resons I mentioned ealier is an unfortunate but neccesary restriction) And Sony’s current legal battles are in the hands of the justice system. Hacking in order to intimidate will not help change the outcome of the legal process.
“All power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
Anon have done a shit-ton of good work with other things, but this so called battle for “OtherOS” is none other than a vulgar display of power. They probably have a bunch of bright people with varying ages and backgrounds, but they seem to share the same mob mentality, which is pathetic.
And to think this all came about because a kid wanted to see if he could bypass the PS3 security infrastructure? I’m tired of reading about him, anon, Sony, homebrew, or this thing that nobody cared about until it was gone. In fact, most gamers would probably answer no if they were given a choice to answer, “Do you want OtherOS returned for homebrew?”
Been great talking to more than a few of you, but this is too much drama for my limited gaming life.
Happy Gaming (offline – cheater free), and happy trails my friends……
Well said Whitey – in an Orwellian twist worth of the master, it seems that Anonymous are becoming more and more like the faceless oppressor that they claim to be fighting. I wonder which animals they would have been in Animal Farm?
.
I really think it’s MOST upsetting to me that Sony employees have to go through this. That being the fact that they are getting their >personal information< about such things as their name, location, and FAMILIES? As if releasing location and everything were not bad enough, their families are getting exposed…. this is wrong. I don't know anonymous very well, just found out about them the other day because someone told me. I read something where anonymous claims that doing anything to endanger the employees is considered crossing the line. But posting personal information about their location, families, and names….wouldn't that actually set them up for endangerment?? There's a reason why people say you should never give out information like that on the internet, because it's dangerous, and what anonymous is doing is setting it up for everyone to see. Taking PSN down is not right because it impacts everyone who plays, millions of people; that's one thing, but going after Sony employees, that's horrible man, I can't believe this mess. I don't think Sony is an evil greedy company like anonymous may claim, at least they give us a FREE SERVICE, that's why I play on PSN…that and the fact that I just prefer it over Xbox. And you know what? As if the current attacks on Sony are not bad enough ( Going after personal info, attacking sites and PSN), anonymous claims to have something bigger planned in the days ahead. Anonymous please stop this, there are in facts millions of people that do not feel the same way you do about Sony. What you are doing is hurting all of us, millions of people who just want to play, we are not involved in this and do not want to be involved in this. I personally believe stronger than anything, that if Sony made the ps3 and Sony made the Terms of Service agreement, they are the BOSS in what they want the Ps3 should be used for. Sony does not want hackers ruining the experience of legit people who go on to play, I think that's perfectly understandable. I'm perfectly satisfied with the Terms of Service. This is all so outrageous……
Read this. http://anonnews.org/?p=press&a=item&i=797
“Greetings, Sony Customers And PS3 Users. We are Anonymous.
During the last few days, Anonymous has been targeting Sony for their outrageous treatment of not only PS3 users and jailbreakers, but also of the general public. Their propaganda regarding jailbreaking implies that it encourages piracy and thereby makes people lose their jobs, whereas jailbreaking actually just means you are making YOUR device do what it should do. Imagine if Microsoft forced you to use Internet Explorer instead of Firefox or Chrome. Imagine if they denied users from using any other web browser than their own. Many people would obviously be pissed… but then, why aren’t you pissed at Sony?
The fact that their litigation demanded information on everyone who had viewed the material, was completely unacceptable. This is a threat not only to the gaming community, but to freedom of information in general. The fact that the privacy of individuals can be violated, simply for accessing information, and legal action can be taken for doing something with something you own, are steps far beyond the line. Anonymous decided it could not allow this to stand. If jailbreaking a phone for use of legal (unsigned) apps is found legal, why would this be any different for the Geohot case, seeing as Geohot explicitly states he does not support piracy?
Anonymous is not attacking the PSN at this time. Sony’s official position is that the PSN is undergoing maintenance. We realize that targeting the PSN is not a good idea. We have therefore temporarily suspended our action, until a method is found that will not severely impact Sony customers.
Anonymous is on your side, standing up for your rights. We are not aiming to attack customers of Sony. This attack is aimed solely at Sony, and we will try our best to not affect the gamers, as this would defeat the purpose of our actions. If we did inconvenience users, please know that this was not our goal.
This operation is a response to Sony’s attempt to deprive their customers of products they bought and therefore own, wholly and completely. Anonymous will not attempt to fight this by following the exact same course of action. We have plenty of tricks up our sleeves.
As a last point, we would like to point out that different operations are ”run” by different people. Those who are involved in the organisation of OpSony, are not necessarily those involved in that of SonyRecon. Anonymous Operations are generally independent efforts, and it would be a mistake to assume that the same individuals are responsible for every action taken. Anonymous is comprised of people with diverse points of view, of which not all coincide with one another.
That being said, our campaign against Sony and others that would trample on the idea of free information will continue, until we are satisfied with the outcome.”
Like I said, attacking PSN wasn’t the best thing they could have done but they explain themselves a little more here.
“Imagine if Microsoft forced you to use Internet Explorer instead of Firefox or Chrome. Imagine if they denied users from using any other web browser than their own. Many people would obviously be pissed… but then, why aren’t you pissed at Sony?”
The pc was designed with an open source architecture in mind. The ps3 and EVERY console throughout history were not, they are CLOSED platforms. Why complain about this now? Weak argument to try to get people on their side, me thinks.
“If jailbreaking a phone for use of legal (unsigned) apps is found legal, why would this be any different for the Geohot case, seeing as Geohot explicitly states he does not support piracy?”
Im assuming theyre talking about the iphone, since thats the only current relevant phone os thats locked down. Well as of now nothing is being deemed legal or illegal. The case is still going pending, going through its processes.
But the way i see it is that sony is being more aggressive due to the fact they have more at stake, and a lot more potential damage can (and has/will be done) due to the ps3 being hacked.
ALL Apple products are sold at PROFIT upon initial sale. Apple doesnt FUND or CREATE the apps, theyre only paid a certain amount to allow developers access to the app store. It doesnt take YEARS or MILLIONS of dollars to create apps or mini games on that product. Not much to lose, right?
For years the ps3 wasnt even profitable. In fact money was lost per system sold. Their only source of financial gain was coming from the software. They invest heavily into their first party studios and FUNDS MILLIONS into their development, advertising, etc.
So who has more to lose here? Why shouldnt they be more aggressive to those that can potentially cause so much harm into something that has been invested so heavily?
“Anonymous is not attacking the PSN at this time. Sony’s official position is that the PSN is undergoing maintenance. We realize that targeting the PSN is not a good idea. We have therefore temporarily suspended our action, until a method is found that will not severely impact Sony customers.”
OOh well gee thx! I didnt know you didnt “realize” that this would impact the customers at all! Im sooo totally with you guys now!
BTW, is this a pathetic attempt to save face? i mean, psn was available to me at all times. Not a single diruption. try harder.
“Anonymous is on your side, standing up for your rights. We are not aiming to attack customers of Sony. This attack is aimed solely at Sony, and we will try our best to not affect the gamers, as this would defeat the purpose of our actions. If we did inconvenience users, please know that this was not our goal.”
Really? On OUR side? Who the fuck picked up the phone and dialed 1800-vir-gins…? Who the hell asked for your help? “Youre not aiming to attack customers”? Well too late, you have failed.
This is simply a weak attempt to justify their actions. As i said before, morally, ethically and legally it IS wrong. Your own perception of the situation, along with your maurity and level of intelligence and logic is whats supposed to help you realise that.
The root motivation for this ridiculous, juvenile behaviour is not a “noble” one, as some of you brainless twits are being led to believe.
All of a sudden these “hackers” cry out that their “rights” are being violated, and surely enough, the loyal subjects want to jump on the “sony is taking my rights away, and are trampling on our freedoms” bandwagon. The funny thing is that most of you would not have given it a second thought, or such an extreme perception of the situation.
When your actions are being fueled and motivated out of spite and revenge, more than likely, your actions are far from “noble”.
I can’t speak entirely for these guys but you are reading with a bias. They said “IMAGINE” if Microsoft or any other PC/OS maker decided to lock down their system to only allow what they want you to use. I’m pretty damn sure you wouldn’t like it, especially if they gave you the choice to either update or you can’t access the Internet on your PC anymore.
You said the PS3 relies on software sales while the iPhone sells at a profit, which is true, but not entirely. I guarantee you that the profits made from software sales on the iPhone dwarfs the profits from hardware sales. The profits from the hardware sales is almost insignificant.
Yeah the PS3 was being sold at a lost, that’s why they took OtherOS and the additional ports.
The attacks on PSN was not meant to be personal. You took it that way so they decided to stop because some people couldn’t live without it.
You don’t want their help? Well I do. I hope a major corporation rips you off of something you cared about so you can one day look for help.
Leave it to starenix to try to justify unjustifiable behavior.
“You said the PS3 relies on software sales while the iPhone sells at a profit, which is true, but not entirely. I guarantee you that the profits made from software sales on the iPhone dwarfs the profits from hardware sales. The profits from the hardware sales is almost insignificant.”
In business, ANY profit is not considered “insignificant”. I take it youre not a business owner, self employed, or even employed at all to make such a ridiculous statement.
Even if youre an employee working an hourly job, if youre boss decides to give you a 2 dollar/hr raise, are you going to reply with “ooh no, 2 dollars is too “insignificant”, keep it.”..?
2 extra dollars x 8 = 16 extra dollars per day.
16 x 40 = 80 dollars extra per week.
80 x 4 weeks = 320 extra dollars per month.
320 x 12 = 3840 extra dollars per year.
that extra 2 dollars doesnt seem very “insignificant” now does it.
Now YOU try working or selling a product without seeing any profit.
“The attacks on PSN was not meant to be personal. You took it that way so they decided to stop because some people couldn’t live without it.”
WE took it personal? well how exactly were “WE” supposed to take it?
“You don’t want their help? Well I do. I hope a major corporation rips you off of something you cared about so you can one day look for help.”
If i ever felt ripped off by a corporation, guess what? I will simply stop purchasing their products. Simple, yet effective way to not feel “violated”.
*typo*
16 x 5 = 80 extra per week*
and before you claim that im “nit picking your comments…
“They said “IMAGINE” if Microsoft or any other PC/OS maker decided to lock down their system to only allow what they want you to use. I’m pretty damn sure you wouldn’t like it, especially if they gave you the choice to either update or you can’t access the Internet on your PC anymore.”
I cant IMAGINE something that isnt even theoretically poosible. BUT if MS ever did that on their Windows version “X”, then the ramifications and negative effects of that will be felt and heard through the consumer. We dont need a group of hackors “fighting” our “wars”.
The great thing about being a consumer is the amount of choices we have to find the right product to meet our needs/wants. If one company isnt fulfilling them, there are others that will.
Sony is not a monopoly. Their products arent meeting your wants/needs, then move on. theyre not the only game in town.
If any profit is good profit, then why bring up the fact that Apple gets profit from each iPhone sold? Doesn’t Sony sell the PS3 at a profit now? Do Devs not pay Sony to develop on the PS3? Have you seen a shortage of PS3 releases lately? I don’t even know why you brought it up.
Like I said, some people need PSN in their lives. Anon didn’t expect so many people to be upset about it. It does, and it should hurt Sony alot more. You should be able to carry on with your life.
Not purchasing anything from Sony wouldnt help if you already did. Some people have a good history with the Playstation or Sony brand and trusted to buy launch models instead of a 360. Those people later lost features so Sony could make profit on hardware and reduce cost.
@WestSiide
And if I was an employee working for $8 an hour of course I would take a $2 raise, without hesitation. If I was earning $100 an hour, I would be less excited for the $2 raise.
“If any profit is good profit, then why bring up the fact that Apple gets profit from each iPhone sold? ”
are you really that stupid, or do you just pretend really, really well?
re-read my replies as long as you need to, and do not respond until you fully comprehend everything i said.
btw, i like how you and your bed buddy shadow thumb down everything i say. yes you little cunt muscle i know youre still lurking around here. lol
@WestSiide
You said:
“But the way i see it is that sony is being more aggressive due to the fact they have more at stake, and a lot more potential damage can (and has/will be done) due to the ps3 being hacked.
ALL Apple products are sold at PROFIT upon initial sale. Apple doesnt FUND or CREATE the apps, theyre only paid a certain amount to allow developers access to the app store. It doesnt take YEARS or MILLIONS of dollars to create apps or mini games on that product. Not much to lose, right?
FOR YEARS THE PS3 WASNT EVEN PROFITABLE. In fact money was lost per system sold. Their only source of financial gain was coming from the software. They invest heavily into their first party studios and FUNDS MILLIONS into their development, advertising, etc.”
The PS3 not earning Sony any profits from hardware sales is no longer the case. So now again, why did you even bring it up?
I like how you ended your comment. Trying to imply that I am associated with Shadow even though I have expressed my different opinions with him. I have thumbed down maybe two comments so far, ONE was yours. Are you the one trolling every single one of my comments and thumbing them down? Even the ones where I don’t express my opinion but just giving out info?
”The PS3 not earning Sony any profits from hardware sales is no longer the case. So now again, why did you even bring it up?”
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/16/analysis-sony-losing-240-on-every-ps3/
Does $305/240 dollars not seem like a huge loss, especially when multiplied by the shit ton of units that were sold around launch? Hmm.. as “insignificant” as the profit apple was making, look at the ridiculous difference between both cases. Try crunching the numbers mathwiz.
Even though sony is no longer losing money per sold console, do you think that magically the BILLIONS of dollars already lost are somehow magically going to re appear?
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/30/ps3-has-lost-sony-4-7-billion-may-be-profitable-next-year/
So to reiterate everything i already said, given these FACTS, do you think sony should just sit back and allow hackers to fuck with something that has been heavily invested on? Are they being too aggressive in their pursuit of JUSTICE of THEIR OWN?
Do they not have a RIGHT of their own to protect themselves from all the leeches of the world?
Of course not! Its all amout ME!! GIMME, GIMME GIMME!!
”The PS3 not earning Sony any profits from hardware sales is no longer the case. So now again, why did you even bring it up?”
Does $305/240 dollars not seem like a huge loss, especially when multiplied by the shit ton of units that were sold around launch? Hmm.. as “insignificant” as the profit apple was making, look at the ridiculous difference between both cases. Try crunching the numbers mathwiz.
(Links i attached wouldnt post. dont believe me, look them up on your own.)
Even though sony is no longer losing money per sold console, do you think that magically the BILLIONS of dollars already lost are somehow magically going to re appear?
So to reiterate everything i already said, given these FACTS, do you think sony should just sit back and allow hackers to fuck with something that has been heavily invested on? Are they being too aggressive in their pursuit of JUSTICE of THEIR OWN?
Do they not have a RIGHT of their own to protect themselves from all the leeches of the world?
Of course not! Its all amout ME!! GIMME, GIMME GIMME!!
I’ll try again to make it easy for you.
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/16/analysis-sony-losing-240-on-every-ps3/
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/30/ps3-has-lost-sony-4-7-billion-may-be-profitable-next-year/
I’ll try again to make it easy for you. copy, paste, add triple W
joystiq.com/2006/11/16/
analysis-sony-losing-240-on-every-
ps3/
joystiq.com/2009/10/30/ps3-has-lost-sony-4-7-billion-may-be-profitable-next-year/
Sigh, did the links somehow get lost on teh interwebz. Fine, here goes one:
http://www.gizmag.com/apple-cost-iphone4/15583/
What were you saying about the iPhone? When the PS3 was being sold, there was no way to play copied games. By your logic, they covered their losses and gained profits.
Of course Sony should protect their investment. When they were trying to stop the sale of jailbreak dongles that included backup managers, I saw no fault. What Sony is currently doing is going after the wrong people. That’s why Anon is taking action. They aren’t going after pirates, the guy that cloned Sonys jig, or the people that sold the dongles. All geohot did was release a CFW along with keys and info on how to sign homebrew apps. His CFW did not have the syscalls necessary to play backups. They also raided graf_chokolo. All he did was make advancements on returning Linux or any Power PC based OS to the PS3.
Nvm, you seem to have managed to learn how to copy and paste correctly.
Those links don’t provide any recent info. It doesn’t tell me anything about where the debt that the PS3 brought stands now. If you haven’t noticed it’s 2011 not 2009.
what was i saying about the iphone? i dont know, how did you interpret what i said?
what did your link prove? that the iphone has a profit margin? We already knew that, so what?
my links were to further emphasize exactly how heavily invested sony is with the ps3, since they were willing to lose money in the billions.
and to further point how due to it being such a huge investment, theyre going to protect it by going after those that threaten its integrity.
It doesnt matter how old the links are it doesnt change anything, just proves everything that i was saying.
i dont understand the confusion, i thought it was pretty evident.
Do you think before you type? What’s your attention span like?
I was trying to prove that most profits are from software sales, not hardware sales. The price to produce the iPhone almost breaks even with the price it is sold. I’m pretty sure that would be the same case with the PS3.
” I was trying to prove that most profits
are from software sales, not hardware
sales. The price to produce the iPhone
almost breaks even with the price it is
sold.”
good lord you are one stupid savage. let me simplify this so even a neanderthal like you can understand.
The fact that more revenue is acquired through software doesnt change the fact that Apple saw literally NO risk with the iphone. Apples investment was pure, easy 100% profit. Sony on the other hand saw almost every imaginable risk. New hardware, new architecture, new disc format, high price point, non profitable, etc.
Apple gains small profit from hardware + software, ALWAYS.
Apple has lost NO money on their product, the iphone, EVER.
Sonys losses equates to BILLIONS, regardless of any money made from software sales.
Sony BARELY started seeing ANY profit from the hardware sometime last year.
The only point i am emphasising is how much of a financial risk this was for them, and how being in their position, i dont blame their actions at all.
and btw here’s your original question.
“The PS3 not earning Sony any profits
from hardware sales is no longer the
case. So now again, why did you even
bring it up?”
I believe I’ve answered that question thoroughly enough. If its still not clear and evident to you, then i highly suggest you sign up for some special ed courses on reading comprehension (no seriously). until then im done with this topic.
You just said that Sony is seeing profits. Their product or what they included in it is no longer a risk. If they are finally seeing profits, even with piracy starting last year then they must not be losing much, if anything at all, from people copying their games. Are you not aware that there is piracy on the iPhone?
Starenix and Shadow Runner should learn that negative attention isn’t good attention. They’re the equivalent of emo/scene kids–they act out to get attention, but it doesn’t get them friends, social backing, or, most importantly–a life. It just shoots em’ further down into the hole.
Well yeah it sucks but your not the only ones who lost something from the PS3, four ports, backwards compatability. I’m certain everyone lost something but like I have said countless times the deal with the OtherOS is done with. Sony lost the case. They had to pay up for removing the
OtherOS.
Plus you can’t say they didn’t know it would effect the consumer. That’s bullshit and they know it, closing down the PSN isn’t going to effect us? The thing we use to download content we paid for and play online with our friends? Nah, it’s not a big deal! Plus their commiting fraud now?! Has the leader of Anonymous gone batshit crazy?! Mindless of he’s goals whether their good or bad that’s a crime and not the kind the hackers can claim isn’t technicly a crime this time,
Hell no, mindless of whether it’s an innocent old lady or one of the top people working for Sony it’s still fraud and sadly for Anonymous they don’t hand out free passes because the guy belongs to a large corporation.
Baaaa! Baaaa! Damn sheep.
Noooo! Noooo! body cares.
slurp! slurp! damn groupie.
fuck you Shadow Runner. Out of everyone on this site I was the only one at least acting like I had an once of respect for you but if you can’t even be bothered to try and show me the same decency then I don’t see why I should bother anymore.
Actually, Shadow Runner, I gave you an invitation to have a discussion of your ethics and values, and gave you an opportunity to convince me that your so-far rather narrow-looking and warped views actually had some basis in fact rather than in wild conspiracy theories. Instead of engaging in conversation, and letting your views be challenged, you’ve posted this instead. Dogmatically holding onto views and not engaging in discussions over whether they are correct or not is the same thing that religious fundamentalists do. I didn’t think that was what you or your group would like to be associated with, but, to-date, all I have seen is the presentation of dogma that would slide right into a chapter from 1984. I am happy to have my views challenged and, based on evidence and logic, changed. You, on the other hand, sound far worse (fundamentalist, unwilling to listen to the people you claim you’re protecting) than the people you’re fighting. Invitation to talk is still there, your call on where you want to take this. I’ll happily be on your side if you deserve it, but so far the information that’s been presented paints Anonymous’ actions here in a pretty negative light.
You actually thought you could have a decent conversation with Shadow? Not trying to be disrespectful but that was a bit naive.
Ok Dave. What more could I possibly say that I havent already covered? Im not understanding what it is you wanna hear. o_O
We are against tyrannical government and greedy corrupt business. We oppose orwellian laws prohibiting our consumer rights and constitutional rights. We oppose being told that we cannot modify or circumvent our merchandise that we pay for. We oppose the prohibition and retliation of free speech on the internet. We seek to make all information FREE to everyone who seeks it.
We do not condone the removal of features from a product after the point of sale. We do not condone the ruthless persecuton of those who choose to modify their merchandise, after the point of sale. We do not condone the abuse of the legal and judicial system in pursuit of a witch hunt. We do not condone the judgement of an individual before he/she has been tried and convicted of an actual crime. We do not condone the public scrutiny of anyone fighting for their rights, regardless of the said person’s personality traits, integrity or ego.
We oppose any TOS prohibiting the use or modification of said hardware and or software included in the machine in question….weather we agree to it or not is irrelevant. We know OtherOS was removed for financial purposes. We know that if security was ever a threat via Linux OtherOS, that Sony had many other options at their disposal, as opposed to removing a feature that some consumers paid for. Security was never the issue. We believe it is our right to modify our merchandise, after the point of sale. We believe that right is being subverted by orwellian laws designed to prohibit this freedom. We know that the machine is capable of doing so much more than what it is being led to believe, and it is our desire to expose these powers in an attempt to make it “better.”
We do not care how many people never used Linux on their PS3. Or who never wanted it. We do not care how irrelevant the feature might have been to the vast majority of the average gamer, who just wants to play games. Our concern is for the people who DO care and who DID use OtherOS on their PS3. The majority does not get to decide whats right or wrong and whats relevant or irrelevant for the minority with modified consoles. We pose no threat to the average gamer, online or offline. Cheaters, on the other hand, are a different genre of people and do not speak for us. Their actions (creating hacked lobbies in MW or BO) do not reflect the beliefs and philosophies of our group. As such, we do not feel responsible for what they do online.
We do not see a need to purchase multiple PS3 consoles for homebrew and average gaming, when we know one is more than sufficient. We do not feel the need to utilise a PC for these features, when we know the PS3 is more than sufficient. We do not condone piracy as it is defined by your society. We clearly understand the implications of the impact that piracy has made to several industries. We do however, support the option to back up a game that you OWN onto your own HDD, for the purposes of disc preservation and faster loading times. We do not believe THIS to be an act of piracy, as defined by your orwellian laws. There is a difference between US….and pirates.
We understand the option to boycott an industry and it’s products is always an option, and one that is being deployed. However, we saw no need to boycott Sony BEFORE the point of sale was made, for most consumers. We were fine with Sony, untill they removed OtherOS and abusing the consumer rights of our minority. Weather we choose to boycott or not, we still OWN a machine that we want to see OPEN. Now that we have achieved that, boycotting Sony will definately be up for consideration, from this point on. It is not our desire to suport a company that tramples over consumer rights and constitutional rights, while abusing the judicial system to serve their witch hunt.
We are not evil people. We do buy games. We do support the devs. We do not cheat or steal from YOU, Sony or the devs. All we want, is to be left alone with our modded consoles and enjoy our homebrew online AND offline. If we are constantly prohibited and slandered for these desires, then so be it. But for every attack Sony makes. For every person they sue and drag through the legal system. For every law they bend….we will retaliate. Everyone must face the consequences for their actions. Even Sony. ^_^
Well, while you’ve said a lot, you haven’t actually responded to a lot of the issues I’ve raised with your world view. Your statement that:
“We seek to make all information FREE to everyone who seeks it.”
would, of course, enable the piracy of every form of digital media ever produced, using basic definitions. It’d also make available all sorts of sensitive private information that people (I believe) have a right to keep private (particularly given your views of human nature that you’ve already broadly outlined).
Above and beyond the huge ethical issues with the above, a number of the statements you’ve made are not logically consistent with each other – you cannot hope to achieve some of your goals without also hurting others.
For the record, I fully support hackers ability to play around with their own console as long as they don’t pirate games. No trouble with that at all. I had no trouble with Geohot doing his tinkering. It was when he made the info available online to anyone who wanted to download it that he crossed the line, as it was clear as the fact that the earth rotates around the sun that his actions would lead to a significant amount of software piracy (at least in the short term).
I find it quite ironic that someone who claims they are making a principled stand isn’t open to discussing those principles. Free speech works best as a dialogue, not two sides shouting slogans at each other and never changing paths. Your approach (as you’ve outlined so far) displays a basic lack of understanding about how human society does and does not work. The way to change this is not to take the fundamentalist “I’ll keep saying the same thing over and over until they go away” approach (your current approach) but engage with the other side’s dialogue, find the common ground, examine the evidence, and both sides build common ground together to move forward.
At the moment, based on any half-decent analysis, Anonymous’ actions seem to be conservative and reactionary, just the kind of Orwellian behaviour that they profess to fight against and, by being made with little regard to the broader nature of the issue, are actually more tyrannical and oppressive than the Governments they fight against – we can vote out our Governments, we can do nothing against Anonymous. As I’ve said, I’m happy to be convinced otherwise, but so far instead of engaging in a thoughtful dialectic, you’ve instead engaged in repetitive (and internally inconsistent) rhetoric. Hardly the way to convince us that Anonymous indeed stands for that which it claims to.
Alright, alright. Damn.
Why so serious? ^_^
You have jumped onto a bandwagon and before long your gonna get pushed right back off onto your arse by the very same people u THINK you are supporting LOL even them losers Anom wouldnt like your rants/points etc.. Do something else…, Their selling Hannah Montana cheap at the mo u know!!!
This would make an epic movie. But how SHOULD it end?
A very reasonable point to make Star
. One of the reasons I gave Shadow Runner the details with which to contact me was so that we wouldn’t clog up the comment thread. Given he didn’t take me up on the offer, I didn’t have a choice. I do think there’s hope for him, and Anonymous – they’re clearly intelligent, but just can’t see the wood for the trees.
@Dave
I like your comments. Very well thought out and organized. You also seem to be open minded which is a good thing. You do provide valid points, some of which I disagree with but valid nonetheless. I wouldn’t say that Anon is completely tyrannical or oppressive. They did stop attacking PSN when they realized customers felt victimized after many complained. They do have a goal. While we may not have a say in whether or not they proceed until they achieve this goal, we can protest, and if their action affect us somehow, I’m sure they would consider an alternative method.
Aye Star, I definitely try and stay open-minded. I didn’t say that Anon was completely tyrannical or oppressive, but because they didn’t have clear lines of accountability, were more tyrannical and oppressive than those they were fighting (who, while it’s far from perfect, do generally have some accountability, at least in democratic societies).
I just think that the way they’ve gone about it has seriously hit their legitimacy. Anon have done some really good things, but this would be one of the silliest things they’ve got involved in, and I can’t see how it’s going to help Geohot or Anon – and by attacking consumers directly, in many ways it pushes gamers to align themselves more with a big corporation (Sony), which I would have thought somewhat counter-productive to their broader social goals.
Further, anything that forces Sony to spend resources defending itself from ethically questionable hacking attempts raises prices for consumers, which hurts us. I find it hard to believe that there aren’t people in Anon with that level of basic understanding. Any attack on Sony that costs them resources hurts general consumers, so there’s no way Anon can do anything material without hurting Joe/Jill gamer. If their actions are unlikely to change anything (which is easily the most probably case), then Anon is effectively throwing an internet tantrum that will eventually cost gamers.
One of Anon’s biggest problems is that it seems to see big corporations as inherently evil, when (just like small businesses, but on a larger scale), all corporations or any organisation of humans is, is a group of people organised to achieve a goal. In Sony’s case, provide a range of products and services. People pay Sony money because Sony provides them with something that increases their enjoyment of life (in theory, at least). So instead of Anon attacking some evil player, what they are doing is attacking an organisation that provides goods to help people enjoy themselves. And the reason they are doing this is because they are defending someone else who was attacking said enjoyment provider.
I know this is all because of Anon’s idea that all information should be available free, but that idea is so ridiculously naive that I find it hard to believe so many otherwise clearly intelligent people can subscribe to it.
Now that is one persuasive comment. I see you are looking at the situation in a broader scale. I’m glad you brought up the effects this could have on gamers. I was contemplating what the PS4 would be like. It’s far from production and a bit off topic but the restrictions they would put on it will be hell. If people thought the current TOS was depraving of consumer rights then they have yet to witness. Sony will be careful with what they advertise and revise the TOS till there is no way out if it. Sony would be in the right, because as long as there is anything the consumer can latch on to, then they will have a similar problem like this one.
The fact that the losses Sony is taking from their sites/PSN being down, having to hire security, and fighting a legal battle can come down on the consumer is enough to change the view that some people have on the situation. I for one may have shifted my stance, not fully, but I can see where these attacks may cause more harm than good. Although from the start, I said bringing down Sonys sites/PSN wasn’t exactly a good idea.
I apologize I can’t go more into this at the moment. It’s very late and I also have to work in the morning. I look forward to continuing, or hopefully discussing another topic with you.
Sorry to keep you up Star, deffo no rush, and deffo happy to wrap it up there. Don’t get me wrong, big corporations (like any organisation of humans) are _not_ always right, and Sony does plenty of things that are just plain dumb (they did some anti-piracy stuff with their music a whiles back that was pretty shady), but in this case the removal of Other OS was clearly to protect their gaming business which (as long as there’s decent competition from Xbox360 and PCs, which there is – the losses Sony took for the first few years of the PS3 clearly show they’re not ripping us off hand-over-fist) is in our interest (as gamers). Protecting this and disagreeing with Anon is not being a lapdog, it’s just supporting our interests as thinking, gaming individuals.
I hope work went well, look forward to having another yarn with ya on another issue sometime
.
@Dave
You wish to debate ethics and morals? Is that it?
We do not believe there is anything ethically or morally wrong with making information free to the people. If you do not want your personal information exposed, then invest in better security. Noone ever said you didnt have a right to secure your personal information. Besides that, your personal information is already all over the internet. Everyone’s is. Just go to people search or white pages.com. If I paid for the services, I could in fact…request a background check on you, look at your criminal record, see where you live and where you lived before. I could procure your phone number and IP address, even find out where you work or go to school. All this….just by utilising the services already made available to the mass public. At our fingertips.
Big Brother uses that information. They collect info from Twitter, Facebook, and Google as well as many, many others. You are already in theyre database. You are just a number to them. Your masters.
We seek to make all information free. How that information is used, we leave up to the free will of the people. It is not our responsibility to police those who seek to do harm. If you are evil, with evil intentions…..fine, but you are FREE to be evil. The suppression of information is not a new concept. Your orwellian government has been doing a great job of that for the last 200 years. You are ignorant of those things that which they do not publiclly mention. They keep you in the dark….and you enjoy it.
Despite the sheeple who wish to turn a blind eye, or play favorites in this country, there vigilantly remain a few of us who do NOT enjoy it. Who are you to determine what people can learn from, what knowledge we can aquire, or how to use this power? Who are you to impose such standards on humanity? We hear your words. Now hear ours. We seek knowledge. We hunger for it. We live for it. Information is our lifeblood. It’s what drives us. If there is anything we wish to learn, we do so through the vassels of information provided to us, via media, entertainment, politics, etc…including the internet. I do not want to live in a world where that information is suppressed and prohibited in the name of “security.”
Ethics and morals are an individual conscience. I personally wouldnt seek out information that would do harm to another individual. On the other hand, if I had X ray vision…..I cant promise you that I wouldnt be using it to see through women’s panties, either. Just because my morals may be different than yours, doesnt mean I’m a bad person. Just different belief structures.
George Hotz released a code, under the provisions of free speech and information on the internet. The law says this was wrong. Sony says this was wrong. You and many others here, say this was wrong. We do not condone this mindset or behavior. We continue to stand by our beliefs for a free humanity. We will oppose you.
I wish to discuss a whole lot of stuff – Anon seem to be a deeply confused group, with more power than understanding (a bit ironic, given that you guys apparently have access to so much information).
Think of it this way – given that knowledge is power, power over others and power to impose your will on others, the idea that:
“We seek to make all information free. How that information is used, we leave up to the free will of the people. It is not our responsibility to police those who seek to do harm. If you are evil, with evil intentions…..fine,”
is profoundly naive and socially dangerous, particularly as not all information will be equally powerful to all people. If Anon were to achieve this goal, then society would be in a race to the bottom in a close parallel to unrestrained capitalism, with everyone having a lower standard of living. Is it Anon’s goal to achieve a lower overall standard of living for humanity, with less art, science and other ‘zero marginal cost of production’ achievements? Because that seems to be what they are working towards. And if it is Anon’s goal to drive humanity down (which would be the result of you achieving your goal), and away from the growth of knowledge, then I am afraid I cannot agree with your goals, as I’m quite fond of humanity, and think they deserve better.
As for all that Big Brother hoo-haa, that’s been around since before they even had computers – that’s hardly new, or news. The key thing to prevent Governments running mad, though, is rule of law combined with democratic checks and balances. I’ll be the first to call rule of law horribly, horribly flawed, but to pinch and paraphrase from Churchill, it’s the least worst system we have. By trying to do the anarchist thing, and trying to work against the law, with no thoughts of consequence, you push society closer to an unchecked Government – again, your actions will create a situation that is even further opposition to the goals you profess to want to achieve.
And you wonder why I think Anon struggles a little with its broader understanding of humanity?
It is not our goal to usher in an era of social anarchy. You cannot assume that evil intentions would prevail in a society that supported free information. You paint a picture of ONE possible theory, among many. We do not believe that making information free to the people, will “drive humanity down.” If anything, the more info people have access to, the more AWARE they become of their situation, environment and surroundings. If for example, the government came out about UFO’s and aliens….dont you think that would be information that the people of the world would want to know? If they revealed that all of religion was a lie and hoax….dont you think the people of the world would want to know? The revelations would have their consequences, sure…mass hysteria would be the1st one, but nonetheless….it is the PEOPLE’s RIGHT to know! That is their decision to make, not yours.
We understand information can do harm, damage companies and institutions of the world. Bad people would want to abuse it and use it for evil intentions. These are all consequences to a risk we are willing to take, in an effort to awaken people and set them free. You seem to enjoy living in a world where information is suppressed in the name of security…and because everyone is overly concerned with “being safe”, we now have people in the dark, ignorant of the world around them. Ignorant of the truths. This is the reason why people want to audit the fed, reopen and reinvestigate 9/11, and question the phenomena in the skies. We want answers! We want truths. Dont you understand? There is a large and growing percentage people on this planet who no longer buy the BS anymore. We question the media. We question the government and we question politics. The old school days of “sit down and shut up” are dead! We were the kids who got sent to the principles office in school, for questioning the history books and the system!
So again, I say….we seek to provide the people with free information. What they do with that information, is up to the free will of the people. It is not our responsibility to police the internet, comdeming those for how they use the information provided to them. What do you not understand about this perspective? o_O
Where do I start? Firstly, when IP is made freely available over the net, it is proven that widespread piracy occurs, no two ways about that. So if the information you’re making available is stuff that people are producing and selling to make a living, then you will make that activity less viable which will, at the margins, reduce production of said intellectual or artistic good. Less intellectual or artistic work is likely to drive humanity down – that’s where that came from. Agree/disagree?
As for your other points:
- You can’t prove religion is a lie – the only way to prove religion is false is to prove there is no god. Given we don’t even understand the human body fully, humanity lacks the scientific knowledge to prove this. Government’s don’t know, and _can’t_ know, plain and simple. And it’s already patently obvious that not all of the various religions are accurate, as many of their ‘facts’ are mutually exclusive.
- If there are UFOs and Aliens, then they are complicit with Governments in remaining secret, because any species that has the capacity to travel the vast distances between habitable planets could sure as hell come out of the closet if they wanted to. If Anonymous is so damn powerful, I’m a little surprised they’ve decided not to talk with you guys as well, what aren’t you telling us?
- A lot of your work seems to be centred around conspiracy theories which should be pretty easy to prove/disprove, with the evidence available now. Sounds like you should do some data analysis and get on top of these issues. For example, there is _oodles_ of publicly available evidence (much of which can be corroborated by multiple sources) for 9/11 – work out which part of 9/11 you’re concerned about, and I’ll happily help you get to the bottom of it.
- The more information people have access to, the more they are aware of? Given Anonymous’ lack of understanding of humanity given what’s available now, I’m not sure that’s true. In fact, I’m very confident that most humans are already out of their depth given the complexity of modern society. That said, I fully support full disclosure of ‘news’ style information (ie, information on what other people are doing), however I believe sometimes it is important to limit the dissemination of other information (ie, the details that make up a music sound file, to prevent music piracy, or the basic security of a content delivery platform, again to prevent piracy), to ensure that people get compensated for their work.
I agree with the support Anonymous gives to the likes of Wikileaks, but when it comes to the free provision of information, there has to be a line. If you reveal people who are helping prevent terrorism or violent crime, putting them at risk and getting them hurt, and enabling terrorism/violent crime to continue, do you think you’ve done a social good? Is it right to let the criminals decide that they should shoot the person working to shut down their child sex slave operation? Information is _not_ value free, and assuming so is, like so many other of your statements, naive. Making all information freely available without care for who will be affected and hurt is at least as morally bankrupt as any of the corporations you’re going up against. That’s what I don’t understand about this perspective
.
Because you are a bunch of THICK idiots END OF…. im no lap dog, i do my bobbing ‘n’ weaving but most of all i earn a crust, look after my family and LOVE kicking arse at games… All you do my lad is whine…. I couldnt give to shits about Geospaz and his bum friends or you Shadow-Bummer lolol im done here… Back to my uneffected ps3 to play games!!! Flame-oN…. bs causes will never be more than BS… Oh and by the way i do look at u as a source of amusment… Inbetween gaming of course… LOLOL
Lemmy. You and your kind…whatever minority you represent…are insignificant to us. And as such, you wil be treated as insignificant. You are now the toddler who get’s put in the corner. You will be ignored, untill you have proven that you can logically engage in a debatable discussion. Your postings will only continue to serve as my own personal entertainment. You are my Jester. ^_^
Again with the “we” and “us” stuff.
I love how mighty you try to sound. Make sure you don’t miss your school bus today, Susan.
Anyway, I wish I knew how to quit you, Susan. But I just can’t stop posting on your comments because it’s too much fun.
Nobody cares about who you think is insignificant, though.
WE are a collective. WE are comprised of many, hundreds…thousands.
WE are a group. An entity.
The term Anonymous….describes anyone who conceals their identity. As such, anyone can be Anonymous. There isnt a single one of us who has to flash you a club member card, in order to prove our allegiance or commitment. Least of all….to the likes of YOU.
This crap about ppl butt-hurt cuz of the other os removal is annoying as hell.
YOU agreed to the ToS, so You gave sony the right to remove the feature. its as simple as that.
your computer is sitting right there if u want another os. whats so important about it being on your ps3? so you can hack it easier? so u can play pirated games? well, thats why sony removed it, so u can thank the ppl that did that crap with it for its removal.
O well, no use arguing with ppl who are never wrong on the internet.
Im not against hacking to a certain extent, and im not against anon by any means, I just think this is kind of pointless.
It doesnt matter WHAT we decided to agree to. A choice to keep OtherOS and lose PSN, or lose OtherOS and keep PSN was wrong and unjust, and a TOS agreement (weather we agree to it or not) prohibiting the modification and circumvention of a product WE paid for….is WRONG!
Sony has nor ever had the RIGHT to impose such a thing on it’s consumers. If you disagree, so be it. But it changes nothing.
It is our collective belief that when you buy a product, that product is yours to do with it as you please. Thats regardless of any TOS, laws or moral implications of the matter.
You say Sony has a right to protect theyre product? Fine…but AFTER THE POINT OF SALE it is no longer Sony’s product. That includes the precious software that they claim to posses owership of, even after the device is in OUR homes.
Think what you want but yes they do have a right to protect their product even after the sale. You act like Sony is the only company to ever put out a TOS agreement. They have every right to not allow you on the PSN if you have a jailbroken PS3 because they are providing a service.
Every software you buy or download for free, whether its Window 7, Photoshop, iTunes, you name it, you are getting a license to use that software. Read it in any terms and conditions. You are not paying for ownership of it and it goes the same way for the PS3.
Most of us don’t understand what sewer you came out of Shadow, your eyes are full of crap. Consoles are not meant to be modded or hacked unless the service provider says you can. You should enjoy the PS3 as it is, for gods sake, it’s a free….FREE SERVICE, you should be greatful. Just enjoy the PS3, stop trying to mess around with OS and stuff like that, if you are looking to install linux, install linux on your computer and stop trying to do it on the PS3. People need to just stop hacking and modding.. and just play! Sony can take away the “Install other OS” option away if they want, they had their reasons I’m sure. Stop complaining about it. I think it’s horrible what anonymous is doing, not ALL information is meant to be free, that’s just the way it is, you should know that. I don’t understand why you and all other members of anonymous feel like you guys can’t just protest in a LEGAL manner! What frustrates me is that you guys don’t care if it’s illegal or not, what is being done is wrong. Most people don’t care about modding or hacking such things as you do, people tend to enjoy the PS3 as well as other things that the service provider gives you, whether it be certified apps for phones or that new Music Unlimited thing on PS3. The majority of people enjoy PS3 in the state that it is. For those who care about modding and hacking, they should care about that kind of thing, they should just enjoy things the way they are supposed to be. Trust me, make no mistake, I’m at least happy about anonymous decided to halt their attacks and decide on other options that don’t hurt the consumers, but I personally am still not satisfied with that. Attacking Sony is wrong and attacking employees as well as their families is beyond wrong. I really really don’t get it.
So Sony doesn’t have a right to decide how the PS3 works once it is in our homes, but Anon does? (By hitting PSN, Anon was affecting the operation of the PS3 in our homes). Yet more internal inconsistency in Anon’s arguments – you’re not making yourself look good here.
We do as we please, Emery. We do not need to seek the approval of Sony to utilise our merchandise in whatever manner we desire. Why do you think we jailbroke it? o_O
Becasue we refuse to be a part of your system. We refuse to color inside the lines. We refuse to play ball by their rules. And we will continue to do so.
@Dave
We have our beliefs and our differences, Dave. This convo has been enlightening, to say the least. But this is how we feel. That is how you feel. You play for one team. We play for another. You play your games, and we play ours. We fight for freedom of information. And you seek to oppress it. May the best team win. ^_^
Knowing your obsession with geotwat, its no secret which “team” YOU play on <3 lol
slurp! slurp!
Shadow Runner, you are free to make bold, evidence-less statements about what you stand for and how you believe the world to be, but I’d rather you didn’t go making (incorrect) guesses about who I play for. I play for truth, understanding and freedom of ‘news’ style information (but not freedom of intellectual production – ie, art, technology, games – whereby that freedom will reduce their production and availability to the masses. People should benefit from the fruits of their labour, and total freedom of information won’t allow this to happen). I also play for meaningful dialogue between people involved in an issue, and an open mind. So far, you (and other reps from Anonymous) seem to be patently incapable of engaging in a dialogue or trying to find common ground. You just repeat empty (and internally inconsistent) rhetoric, presumably in the hope that we’ll all go away?
Westsiide! ^_^
Hi buddy! *hugs*
Have you come to play, again? LOL
OOoh, relax!!!
Why so serious? ^_^
Haha. I like you. You will be spared when my empire comes to power. ^_^
“We are against tyrannical government and greedy corrupt business. We oppose orwellian laws prohibiting our consumer rights and constitutional rights. We oppose being told that we cannot modify or circumvent our merchandise that we pay for. We oppose the prohibition and retliation of free speech on the internet. We seek to make all information FREE to everyone who seeks it”
I’m confused you see up here you say you want to make information free to everyone and stop the laws which prohibit our consumer rights yet here your saying your planning on having an “empire”? Do you actually want us to see you as the villian?
Because “You will be spared when my empire comes to power!” Sounds less like a freedom fighter and more like a comic book villian.
Naww, Timewarp. Me and Westsiide have a “special” understanding of one another. LOL
@Shadow-Runner
No homo?
*I joke, I joke*
Ahhh how sweet! I’m sure Geohotz will be jealous (I joke, it’s just funny considering Jawknee’s been implying you have a thing for the guy)
@Timewarp
Ahh, I hope you didn’t take it as a reply to you. I was refrencing Shadows “special” understanding. Anyway it all seems like good humor here.
@starENIX
Don’t worry I was only joking around as well
hello …
i’m sorry, but i know what a hacker is & they & their followers aren’t hackers but cyber terrorists & should they fall under the sword of justice or another force, it will be just good for everyone. I already challenged them on the other post, if they want to win, it’s OK go the way to prove SONY is wrong, not that they are a bunch of immature & then the world will follow them.
cheers!
Can I just say that I’m getting sick of not being able to use playstation.com! Seriously, quit the fucking straight out harassment and bullshit and move on to a different project, cos hacking the PS3 is not a fucking option, and you absolutely WON’T win. You’re pissing off users who can’t use the product the way it’s INTENDED to be used because one person is getting sued for trying to fuck with it.
You will thank us one day. ^_^
That’s what Stalin said to the Kulaks as he enforced their collectivisation….
hello …
if i could i would have 1000x thumb up Dave posts
it is cool to see someone who has a good insight of things, too bad our little friends can’t see the truth.
freedom is a concept that is limited…
YOU have the right to kill, but YOUR victim has the right to live, freedom of speech is not well understood & often misused.
I am free to say whatever i want, but
- if i have no proof i can’t accuse anyone
- if i care for someone, i can’t always hurt their feelings if it doesn’t help making everyone win something
- if i want to succeed i can’t give my competitors information about how i proceed, or how my articles work
- if i want to start a war or prevent one, i shall say or not say something
- if i don’t want to have a contract on my head, i shall not talk about some secrets linked to the mafia
- if i don’t want to be called Donkey Shot, i shall fight for good causes with convictions , not lame excuses.
there’s a sentence in French that i encounter often “La parole est d’argent, mais le silence est d’or.” – it somewhat means whatever needs to be said if isn’t better than remaining silent, you’d better shut up
..
well i am not against enhancing something, i agree that there will always be some enthusiasts having the knowledge to push things up, else there will be no overclocking, no improvement & no competition.
i don’t see big corporates to be evil, for someday i may become a big corporate too & if i thrive to work for humanity yet making big profits why not !? …
we, consumers make big corporates what they are !
we should respect each other, for stating my 1st principle here: ‘don’t do unto others, what you don’t want others do unto you” … i’m sure even the hackers don’t want to be victims of other hackers …
1st we have rules, they may be flawed or seem illogical or sometimes unethical, but they are here to protect us, those who do not comply are often being hypocrites, because OK, using SONY vs GeoHot vs ANON & PSLS members vs Shadow-Runner here as the perfect example, Shadow says if you want to be safe, build yourself better protection – Agree, but if it costs me more, as a simple Internet user do i need to care about protecting myself more than enjoying life … the best security would be not to come online at all & is that an option he will himself consider !?
I hack but don’t want to support piracy, yet the major thing it does is allow piracy – you are not intelligent enough to force the machine to run ONLY legal discs !?
We want to protect people from those evil big monsters – yeaaah !!! but we created those monsters & we want them to feed us with whatever they can, it’s called business, entertainment & if i can’t create my own music record, i’m glad someone else can for me to enjoy, after helping a few lost souls to get back on feet who would save me, my games made by others, my movies made by the same big evil corporates.
if it isn’t asked by the majority, there’s no reason to fight for it, it’s not for our life’s sake or whatever .. we want to buy food to eat, we don’t need secret recipes to do it ourself when we don’t find time, we want to play on our consoles or PCs, we don’t have the time or knowledge or even necessity to learn to fiddle with such machines, some are dumb with PCs but can save your life in the hospital while others make sure you are safe when you walk out in the street…
not all gamers are Geeks & IT wizz, not all IT geeks are gamers & we don’t always want all those somewhat highly looking forward features, we want peace of mind, we want entertainment & no hassle, no risks ….
you want to play, disassemble, tweak, overclock, hack & create a coffee machine out of your PS3, fine, you are free to do so, but the design / concept / engineering & work force not belonging to you, you are not free to distribute the work to the whole public, if you do so in a small community, fine it’s closed & you enjoy the machine better than i do, it’s OK, i don’t need or want the options, so why saying you fight for me …
if hackers are good enough & want complete freedom, i said so, don’t hack existing machines, create one that can do same or better with better features & release it for free to the public, i bet that they won’t for they will then learn the truth about life & the cost of just doing the proper research … for now, all i can see are cyber-terrorists trying to justify their stupid causes of thieves in disguise trying to make us believe they are modern-days Robin Hood, no like our Donkey Shot, you are Robbing Would instead !
cheers!
ONE) You shouldnt have to recreate or build from scratch, that of which you already own. If I already own a PS3 that will “do everything” with a little modding, then THAT would be a more convienent approach….for me anyway. Not everyone has the extra income to build your own gaming rig! So just squash that idea, right here. We bought our PS3′s…and we will use them as we see fit.
TWO) A “legal disc” can also be one that you OWN and already purchased. If I went to gamestop and bought a brand new game for $65, took it home and decided to rip it to my HDD for the purposes of faster loading times and disc preservation, THAT is my perogative. It is not my concern, if other people are employing this method to pirate games. I am not OTHER PEOPLE!
THREE) Just because the majority does not ask for help, does not mean those who do are S.O.L.
Weather YOU like it or not, there are those who would like to have free and open access to the Sony PS3. These people would like theyre rights represented and fought for, so that we can lay the ground work future cases to come, perhaps even work towards changing the laws to suit our agenda. You do not have to like it or agree wit our methods….we do not require you to…but we will not stop. We will not faulter, and we will not submit to the almighty corporations. We will prevail.
FOUR) Maybe YOU like “feeding the beast” and supporting those who are already living high the hog, drinking champagne, eating caviar and attending big fancy balls….but the rest of us DESPISE big business. Mega million dollar corporations often move into small and local towns, like Wal-Mart and put the little “mom & pop” businesses out of operation. Where once, everyone was supporting “average joe pop shop”….now people support the much bigger and wealthier Quick Trip gas stations. I dont frankly care how you wanna justify this….there are a LOT of people who hate big business, in this conuntry. We dont NEED it as bad as you think we do. We can manage just fine without turning our country into one giant ass shopping mall!
hello …
you again, oh …. pfff. i just replied a long post about you & don’t want to start again …
1 – it’s not to recreate from scratch but to see what is the work behind, but you don’t know what it is & … @ least come up with a FW that can do all that you can & prevent the use of pirated disc, even if it means sacrificing the only 1 option of full rip, for someone responsible knows how to make sacrifice for a good cause … else you are just as pathetic as you sound
2 – egocentric approach, omg the loading time is too hard for me, i will take ages & dump all my 100s of original games on that big overheating hdd play off them to preserve my BR … I agree partly & would love this feature too, but if it means people will steal if i do so & i can prevent it, i shall keep that feature as an optional 1 only those who really know how to fiddle with it would be able to activate it, not for the local street vendor to use it & sell PS3 with preloaded games.
3 – No if the majority doesn’t ask for help, means they don’t want or need it, joining the reason 1& 2, if you are responsible enough, you can make something not available to the masses but only to those seeking it & if you were intelligent too, make sure it is not delivered to the wrong hands, for if you buy a PS3 ONLY for the homebrew then you don’t deserve to have 1 & allowing piracy on it is like shooting your legs for if you bought the machine also for gaming, expect to have less & less support when it is spoiled & NO the manufacturers don’t need do use more resources / time & money to build a fortress that in the end doesn’t appeal to the consumers for it’s hard to use.
4 – I don’ feed the beast, i believe in recognition of someone’s work, i believe that everyone has a role. If i could create my own movies, music, video games, cars then i would understand your point of view, but in this competitive world, only hypocrites say they hate the big evil corporates for in the end they still feed those beasts … just open your eyes, maybe someday you too will become a rich entrepreneur, it’s all the worst i can wish for you.
cheers!
We do not teach, inspire, force, impose or demand morals, ethics and responsibility.
We are not politicians, big brother or a police force. We will not take your keys if you get drunk. We will not take your kids, if you get high. We are not in the business of regulating the terms under which a person can or cannot operate a jailbroken device, either.
We feel that “responsibility” is and always has been on the shoulders of the free will of THE INDIVIDUAL. We present you with the tools, guides and information on jailbreaking your PS3 to run homebrew. What you do with those resources, is up to YOU. Not us.
I can hand you a loaded gun, and walk away with a clear conscience. Doesnt bother me. It’s YOUR CHOICE if you wanna blow someones head off. Not mine. The gun doesnt kill….it is the hard heart that kills; the individual. It is not our responsibility to make sure YOU do the right thing!
If you’re looking for someone to come and tell everyone how to make responsible choices and live their lives, go find superman….because that simply isnt us.
If you buy a PS3 ONLY for the homebrew, you dont deserve to have one?! Who the hell are you to make such bold claims? If I bought my PS3 for the sole purpose of homebrew, I sure as hell DO deserve to have it. My intentions with my property, are not subjectable to what I DESERVE and what I dont. You are not my daddy, my boss or my god. You certaintly have no right dictating what I deserve. That statement is insignificant and irrelevant.
Your predictions and fears of the PS3 losing dev support are grossly exaggerated. You make it sound like all the supporting devs are gonna pull out and leave Sony crippled, lmao. They might lose a few. 2 or 3….at the most. But life will go on, devs WILL continue to support the PS3 and games WILL continue to be made for it. A perfect example of this, is your beloved PSP. I mentioned this once, before. Somewhere out there, is a group of ignorant people spreading the word that the PSP is dead and all the devs have given up on it. Really? o_O
Last I checked….the PSP was still going strong, making great hardware sales and software sales. I also cant help but notice the GAMES out on the retailers shelves whenever I go to a GameStop or Best Buy. The fact is…..the PSP is just fine, always has been….and the PS3 is no different. Stop over exaggerating!!!
And lastly….you only feed the beast, if you choose to. I bought my PS3 used, from a friend….not Sony. I buy my groceries from my local super market, not Wal-Mart. I buy my gas from the “mom & pop” gas station….not Quick Trip. I would rather support THOSE people, than the FACELESS corrupt mega million dollar corporations that run this planet.
We continue to support and fight for the people. A few bad apples with different opinions will not sway our resolve. Cheers! ^_^
Richy2K9, love your work
Shadow, you’re still living in an internally inconsistent ethical framework. Let me give you some examples”
“I can hand you a loaded gun, and walk away with a clear conscience.” So you’d say that when Governments arm authoritarian regimes who go on to murder their own people, that’s alright? Personally, I have huge issues with supporting regimes that oppress and murder people. But based on what you’ve said, that’s not an issue for Anonymous?!
Another example:
“We do not teach, inspire, force, impose or demand morals, ethics and responsibility.”
Actually, this whole issue is about Anonymous causing service interruptions and placing personal pressure on individuals in an attempt to get someone to change their behaviour. Sounds a lot like forcing/imposing to me.
You cannot take action that changes someone’s access to something, without imposing or forcing a certain view or way of seeing the world on someone. What Anonymous does is to take action to impose a certain set of morals on the world. They are just another interest/pressure group, except unlike Amnesty International, the Red Cross, and other legitimate organisations that work within Society, Anonymous imposes its will whenever it wants, regardless of the laws that attempt (fallibly, but better than having nother) the rights of the rest of society.
It is what it is. We never said we were upholding anyones morals. The fact is….were being asked to do all this, BUT with a sense of morality and responsibility. Once again, I say NO! Thats not gonna happen. Were not superhero’s….we dont care!
You can say whatever you want about me or Anon….we dont care. we have our goals and objectives. And they will be executed. Point blank, plain and simple. Deal with it.
Y’know what, same deal with the Nazis and the Holocaust – they had their objectives, and they were going to execute them, and didn’t care what the rest of the world thought. Imposing your view on the rest of the world, in a fashion that brings pain and hardship to people (what you have just stated you will do) is, in my view, wrong.
Saying “it is what it is” is just a way of saying “we accept that by providing information people will get hurt, but we don’t care”. This is a moral position – everything you do reflects a certain moral and ethical stance – there isn’t a happy vacuum where Anonymous sits* – EVERYONE has a moral position, and by imposing yours, you ARE imposing on others. Your inability to understand this suggests you should spend less time ‘freeing’ information, and more time processing it.
*Ironically, every organisation that wants to impose their will on others usually has this kind of moral view on the world – ie, that their view is somehow absolute and fundamentally correct, and that every other view is an aberration of it. Yet another example of how Anonymous is disturbingly like the organisations it claims to fight. You’ve used the term “Orwellian” a few times now – I personally recommend giving “Animal Farm” a read, you might learn a thing or two
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You can say what you want blub blub = kids
The only thing you will achieve is realising you have wasted YEARSSS of your life doing FK ALL WORTHLESS… LOLOL This will go nowhere other than a few websites PMSL
BS CAUSES ARE ALWAYS JUST THAT! BULLSHIT…..
Were not killing millions of people, Dave. I hope you hurry up and have that cow, already. LOL
It’s quite clearly a different context, but it’s the same thought process, and that thought process is about as pro-freedom as censorship in the Soviet Union. And you should know all of this, given your interest in the topic! I’m leaving this discussion now, as honestly Anonymous sound like a bunch of kids in basements who wouldn’t know what freedom of information meant if it was stamped on their forehead. I hope that, at the very least, you grow through your experiences to have a better understanding of the world.
Thank you. You were begining to bore me, anyway. ^_^
With all that talk it musta been a proud day your mother shit you out..! Carnt be arsed to comment on the actual story anymore its actually pointless (as fk alls gonna happen) My fun with ‘our’ jester has ended…..
You too? Sweet. You mean all I had to do was wait you guys out? Well then….good ridance. You were just standing in the way of those who appreciated our services. RIP Lemmy. You will not be missed. ^_^
You didn’t ‘wait us out’, you just repeated the same old rubbish until it became clear to the rest of us you were a lost cause. That’s not winning
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It is to me, lmao.
*charlie sheen* Winning! Duh.
My take on things
Anonymous makes the claim that they are not attacking the consumer but the way I see it is yes they are. I have games that can only be played online and due to anonymous pathetic actions in support of the hackers that caused sony to bring down their network they are attacking all users as a whole.
I hope once they get these morons that they all get whats coming to them. Pathetic Losers is all they are. I see their actions as nothing more than cyber terrorism in all the other actions they have taken in the past up until now.